• 29 March 2024 (59 messages)
  • @6370143984 #10382 02:37 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    aaaand kickstart sync just finished in 18 hours đŸ€Ż
  • @ffmad #10383 02:39 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    What's your latest message?
  • @6370143984 #10384 02:40 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    so after sync is complete you have to restart bitcoind and then run counterparty-server start. bitcoind is syncing now, will lyk
  • @6370143984 #10387 03:00 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Block: 836806 (78.52, hashes: L:42b24 / TX:e747c / M:d6e9b)
  • @6370143984 #10388 03:00 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    @ffmad
  • The code must still be changed in CP core. since the version is set in the config as 4.4.
  • @herpenstein #10390 03:08 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Derp in Official Counterparty Dev Chat

    Is there any good reason why there isn’t a group of people who use a multisig to 1) create an asset called cpBTC (or something similar) 2) create a dispenser for the asset that sells it at 1:1 parity with btc 3) use the funds received to make a btcpay order to buy all the cpBTC back at say 99% the price of btc (1% profit for the multisig custodians)

  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10387 #10391 03:16 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Thx. What's your latest message index?
  • @6370143984 #10392 03:57 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    {
    "api_limit_rows": 1000,
    "bitcoin_block_count": 836812,
    "db_caught_up": true,
    "indexd_blocks_behind": 0,
    "indexd_caught_up": true,
    "last_block": {
    "block_hash": "00000000000000000002f1fa1bc0e7be942eaae25792c2d2b4bf87aa5d342314",
    "block_index": 836812,
    "block_time": 1711727376,
    "difficulty": 83126997340024.61,
    "ledger_hash": "6d9815f077dd407fe62bdb10cf8f0fedb5596f251ab8b7f46ab1aef6d4b32950",
    "messages_hash": "bf65e2cca8ac18a79b5f9a79e05fec55993b42cfa3148d21b7dc550f71bc01ea",
    "previous_block_hash": "00000000000000000000e5964d427a37fc46779b72830352c89f46a60e26d043",
    "txlist_hash": "cc10224af18ecbebf5bae1287fc04d9b82a397579cfd25cbdec7f782cae7ac8d"
    },
    "last_message_index": 13601811,
    "running_regtest": false,
    "running_testcoin": false,
    "running_testnet": false,
    "server_ready": true,
    "version_major": 10,
    "version_minor": 0,
    "version_revision": 0
    }
  • @ffmad #10393 04:34 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    {
    result: {
    server_ready: true,
    db_caught_up: true,
    bitcoin_block_count: 836817,
    last_block: {
    block_index: 836817,
    block_hash: '0000000000000000000013534b956b0f32b3f9e6b347ce3261ee0c28e4b6d045',
    block_time: 1711729283,
    previous_block_hash: '0000000000000000000178c587232d0e74dfd8b9df213882a32e4c888c741300',
    difficulty: 83126997340024.61,
    ledger_hash: 'a1448a855f83e9d695224cb4c946bbe6698277ff02dfd315fc6f4fd716d6882e',
    txlist_hash: 'fc167c082c048157d0c958c5bfb52ac52b1125a984e269bef2e4932b803c4a34',
    messages_hash: '69848fdf0f1cff8642d05027d739c4c74788a3c6234481fa66b1750f490ec636'
    },
    indexd_caught_up: true,
    indexd_blocks_behind: 0,
    last_message_index: 5138694,
    api_limit_rows: 1000,
    running_testnet: false,
    running_regtest: false,
    running_testcoin: false,
    version_major: 10,
    version_minor: 0,
    version_revision: 0
    },
    id: 0,
    jsonrpc: '2.0'
    }
  • @ffmad #10394 04:35 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    you have `"last_message_index": 13601811,`
  • @ffmad #10395 04:36 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    13,6m // 5,13m
  • @ffmad #10396 04:37 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    that's weird
  • 4.4.6 is newest addrindexrs. Core lib checks for 4.4.4 which is why we both changed it.

    I noticed some of the change log notes for 4.4.5 and 4.4.6 make use of standard bitcoin.conf options, great idea to standardize those options. Similar thoughts applied to counterparty will address the previous issue with nonstandard bitcoind installs having blocks located in a different directory while counterparty can not find the bitcoind chainstate directory location.

    I very much have responsibilities outside of the internet and counterparty. I find telegram works for me for now. I will gladly join github at a later date and contribute there, once I get a node running and as I find free time to volunteer.

    Thanks for the help so far.
  • yeah idk. asking.
  • Does the develop branch read me/install section need any different instructions, commands or considerations?
  • Yeah just following on the conversations from here it seems the docs don’t have full instructions to get to a successful install
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10398 #10401 04:54 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    It would probably be helpful to have others check what they are getting
  • @6370143984 #10402 05:01 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    ANN When Counterparty was originally created, we launched with a working codebase + protocol on day one. I never wrote a whitepaper, because I thought it wasn't necessary. But ten years later, I think it will potentially help a lot of people to have a formal description of the project and protocol to refer to. So I went ahead and wrote a whitepaper for Counterparty—https://krellenstein.com/adam/
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10398 #10403 05:38 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Have you checked other synchronized CP status?
  • @6370143984 #10404 05:40 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    I haven't. This isn't for me to say but strictly speaking messages aren't consensus critical so @teysol not sure what makes sense here...
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10404 #10405 05:44 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    This is weird that we have something that different
  • @6370143984 #10406 05:44 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    yes as I said looking into it.
  • Read it and I (99%) agree with it. I’m happy to see where we are today. The potential was there but the development state was sooo different just a couple of years ago.

    So why 99%? I think the VM implementation will need more discussion with the community
 Personally I would like to know the specifics of the use cases before being convinced this is a better path than just not dealing with any of it at all.
  • @6370143984 #10408 05:58 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    @ffmad what version are you running
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10408 #10409 06:08 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Of Counterparty core?
  • @6370143984 #10410 06:09 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    yes. what does counterparty-server --version return
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10410 #10411 06:11 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    counterparty-server v10.0.0-beta.1; counterparty-lib v10.0.0-beta.1
  • V10.0.0-beta.1 for me too.

    To get a node running without docker, should I

    1. Wait for/install a new counterparty version compatible with adr 4.4.6?

    2. Delete addrindexrs 4.4.6 and install addrindexrs 4.4.4?

    3. rm -rf /*
  • @ABlue0ne #10413 07:12 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Git checkout develop

    Already on ‘develop’
    Your branch is up to date with ‘origin/develop’.
  • Can the “VM” be like a special broadcast that executes a programming language, like a JavaScript module exporting a single function. Then whatever is the outcome, translates to cp native messages like send, dividends, etc.. maybe even issuances
  • @marceh0le #10415 09:57 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Joined.
  • @teysol #10416 10:22 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    ah nope, that would not work at all
  • @uanbtc #10417 11:12 PM, 29 Mar 2024
    Ok then how would it work? Any simple example
  • 30 March 2024 (187 messages)
  • @Jpcryptos #10418 02:36 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    can i join utxos?
    i have 0.1 xcp in address 1
    then i have 0.4 xcp in addres 2
    so i want to send 0.5 xcp...
  • @Jpcryptos #10419 02:38 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    can I build the opreturn utxo with the amount 0.5 xcp?
  • @Jpcryptos #10420 02:40 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    0ac4baedcb92526aac4b71bc615e9e1b536f08a4b825cd09ca25118ade07a164

    i just tested it dont work...
  • @XJA77 #10421 02:41 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    Getting this error
  • @XJA77 #10422 02:41 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartylib/lib
    /check.py", line 274, in consensus_hash
    raise ConsensusError(error_message)
    counterpartylib.lib.check.ConsensusError: Incorrect txlist_hash has
    h for block 823000. Calculated 3017c21e05aca875854fbe707aa9694771f
    76bb768a064f290f017814fcec1bd but expected 53dd28b40d7ba79479445857
    0fb880b108f9bc255f77721da128ac06f2e96e94
    Unhandled Exception
    Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/usr/local/bin/counterparty-server", line 8, in <module>
    sys.exit(server_main())
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartycli/__i
    nit__.py", line 20, in server_main
    server.main()
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartycli/ser
    ver.py", line 227, in main
    server.start_all(catch_up=args.catch_up)
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartylib/ser
    ver.py", line 541, in start_all
    blocks.follow(db)
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartylib/lib
    /blocks.py", line 835, in follow
    new_ledger_hash, new_txlist_hash, new_messages_hash, found_mess
    ages_hash = parse_block(db, block_index, block_time)
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartylib/lib
    /blocks.py", line 206, in parse_block
    new_txlist_hash, found_txlist_hash = check.consensus_hash(db, '
    txlist_hash', previous_txlist_hash, txlist)
    File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/dist-packages/counterpartylib/lib
    /check.py", line 274, in consensus_hash
    raise ConsensusError(error_message)
    counterpartylib.lib.check.ConsensusError: Incorrect txlist_hash has
    h for block 823000. Calculated 3017c21e05aca875854fbe707aa9694771f
    76bb768a064f290f017814fcec1bd but expected 53dd28b40d7ba79479445857
    0fb880b108f9bc255f77721da128ac06f2e96e94
    javi@3BA618D:~$
  • @Jpcryptos #10423 02:41 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    yo
  • @XJA77 #10424 02:43 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    Using normal start
  • @XJA77 #10425 02:43 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    With docker
  • yep this is almost certainly that non-determinism I mentioned
  • @6370143984 #10427 02:47 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    it's fixed on develop
  • @6370143984 #10428 02:49 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    as I said: if you hit this you can rollback to the last checkpoint. and rerun start
  • @6370143984 #10429 02:51 AM, 30 Mar 2024
    As I said it's fixed on develop but you may hit it again if you're using a tagged version. I believe a new release is forthcoming.
  • I’ve seen somewhere either multiple sources or destinations. Some old txns. But is not possible in the current “single message per txn”, I believe. Maybe possible with @jp_janssen compressed transactions?
  • xcp is not stored in utxos
  • How would what work? The VM? As the whitepaper describes, Counterparty is a state machine. A VM is also a state machine. The VM would be a state machine inside the state machine.
  • I have never tried but I expect that, yes, you can join utxos from multiple addresses. Counterparty interprets the first utxo as the sending address.

    This does NOT mean you can send Counterparty tokens from multiple addresses in one transaction.
  • @uanbtc #10434 01:21 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    If both addresses are included as inputs, it *could* be possible right?
  • I would like to know a simple use case that uses said VM. And how that transaction (and the effect of this transaction in future blocks) would look like

  • @6370143984 #10436 01:26 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I am not sure what you mean by use-case. Counterparty's existing functionality is a (tiny) subset of what you could do, so technically Counterparty itself is a use-case. I'll let Adam speak to what the upgrade path might look like
  • @teysol #10437 01:29 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    yeah I don't know where to begin. Blockchains have had virtual machines for almost a decade now. They're used for everything. And they're strictly superior to hardcoded smart contracts, if implemented well.
  • @teysol #10438 01:30 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    It will be a new transaction type that provides input data into the state machine, which input data will include code to execute
  • our last discussion concerning the moral aspect of making asset descriptions optionally lockable would've been unnecessary
  • @uanbtc #10440 01:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I’m really just asking basic questions on purpose. Because I know that most users of CP don’t get into the tech at all and support for the VM will be by faith / “blockchain buzzword” basically.

    I don’t want to support it by faith. I want to understand how the protocol looks and works with such VM as part of it.

    So what can be a good basic example of code I want to use as an input in this new transaction type

  • @teysol #10441 01:53 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    The best way to understand how the VM will work is to look at how the EVM works in Ethereum. There will be a number of important differences ofc. but conceptually that's a place to start
  • @hodlencoinfield #10442 02:18 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    The biggest difference being no native btc support unlike the EVM which has native eth support
  • @hodlencoinfield #10443 02:19 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Unless we get really creative with how utxo bound assets are handled
  • @6370143984 #10444 02:20 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I know this will make some people angry but XCP would play the role of ETH. Sorry.
  • @teysol #10445 02:21 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I have no idea why it would make anybody angry, but I'm continually surprised at the resistence people have to adding additional functionality... đŸ€·â€â™€ïž
  • This is why stamps and btns came about. It really boils down to tx type.
  • @6370143984 #10447 02:25 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I don't know what that means. Stamps AFAICT is primarily a riff of on inscriptions and btns is conceptually very similar to the original src20.

    If Counterparty were programmable then there would be less reason for people to opine on how others use it.
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10444 #10448 02:27 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    That's the purpose of XCP. Being angry at it makes no sense, it's just the usual Bitcoin zealots
  • @6370143984 #10449 02:29 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    brought to you by the same people who thought that sidechains would get rid of the altcoin market...
  • @ABlue0ne #10450 02:31 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    You don’t see that those projects subverted the protocol? On purpose. For a reason

  • @6370143984 #10451 02:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    i think that subversion is an absurd word to use in the context of permissionless systems
  • @ffmad #10452 02:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Or that think that lightning / L2s are enough to support the fees markets
  • @6370143984 #10453 02:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    any day now lightning will take over the world, I promise.
  • @ABlue0ne #10454 02:33 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Sure, trying to get you to see my point is requiring interesting language.
  • @ffmad #10455 02:33 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Lightning is great. It's just that people never settle
  • @ffmad #10456 02:33 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    When you are on the L2 you stay there
  • BTC is permission less. BTC doesnt need XCP.
  • @6370143984 #10458 02:34 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I think that @mikeinspace and his team shrewdly caught on to a narrative of 'shitcoin-less' NFTs that Ordinals originated and found a variant with a different and complementary narrative
  • @ABlue0ne #10459 02:34 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    That did not need gas or xcp
  • ... believe it or not I know that.
  • @ABlue0ne #10461 02:35 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    BTNS is the same
  • @6370143984 #10462 02:35 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    if you want a VM you need gas, if you need gas you need a gas token. XCP is the perfect gas token for the counterparty network; BTC is not. Sorry!
  • @uanbtc #10463 02:35 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I don’t know if this is the best for CP. From multiple perspectives:

    After many years, the top use case for ETH is issuing tokens/icos and dexes. And then came NFTs.

    And there was Counterparty that could do both all along, with its asset issuances and dex functionalities.

    The current protocol already has unused hardcoded functions. So users are showing the features they are interested in. All hard coded and simple to maintain.

    Wanting to replicate Ethereum, which is resource intensive (anyone here has run a node?) and constantly hardforking, thus proving centralization, is not something I want.

    I would rather CP continue in its path to “ossification” and decentralization. And being easy and cheap to run, both which also help in decentralization.
  • To me this means people will not like gas much.

    NBD to me either way. Just my two sats.
  • agreed. this is why no one uses ethereum.
  • If you need to make backwards-incompatible changes for every feature anybody wants then you're definitely not encouraging decentralization.
  • @ABlue0ne #10467 02:37 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Thats my point
  • This is FUD and has no connection to reality. You cannot go from "How does a VM work?" to "All VMs lead te centralization, hardforking, and high resource consumption." in a single breath.
  • I cant wait to run a node.
  • @6370143984 #10470 02:38 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I do not understand what the fascination is with the smart contracts Adam wrote a decade ago. They're not perfect or exhaustive.
  • @teysol #10471 02:40 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    There are *many* things that Counterparty can't do, and there are many things that Counterparty can do today that it can do *much better*.
  • @teysol #10472 02:40 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Faster, cheaper and easier
  • @6370143984 #10473 02:40 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    That's blasphemy, Saint PhantomPhreak
  • @droplister #10474 02:42 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I think the main fns you need are: issue, send, trade. And the biggest feature is liquidity. I’m interested to learn more about the VM design.
  • @ffmad #10475 02:42 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    About the running a node part, how many v10 are currently running ?
  • @uanbtc #10476 02:43 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    In my view Ethereum is centralized. Getting to consensus of upgrades would not be as “smooth” if it wasn’t.
  • @6370143984 #10477 02:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    consensus upgrades are independent of the smart contracts on the ethereum network.... *and that's exactly the point*
  • @ffmad ↶ Reply to #10476 #10478 02:45 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I think it's also because the vision of the community is different
  • @ffmad #10479 02:46 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    "break things" is unacceptable on Bitcoin, not on Ethereum
  • @ffmad #10480 02:46 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    But things are taking longer and longer to implement on Ethereum though
  • @6370143984 #10481 02:47 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    counterparty being forced into obsolescence because making it better stirs up fears of centralization (but apparently the software being too slow for anyone to independently validate does not??) is, like, not a good thing...
  • @uanbtc #10482 02:47 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Has ANYONE here run an ethereum node? Or any VM blockchain?
  • @6370143984 #10483 02:47 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    yes?
  • @teysol #10484 02:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    VMs are not inherently slow or something...
  • @6370143984 #10485 02:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    also, you have a gas token to charge for compute đŸ€Ż
  • @teysol #10486 02:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    (Ethereum is absolutely too centralized IMO)
  • @6370143984 #10487 02:49 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    sure but centralization is not a monolithic concept
  • Ethereum has loads and loads of service providers, no one is gatekeeping which features it supports, etc.. Can Counterparty say the same?
  • @6370143984 #10489 02:51 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I agree that upgrading a $500B network shouldn't be nearly as easy as it is with Ethereum ofc.
  • I’m one of the few that was screaming when CP added the reset, effectively breaking backward compatibility with the issuance message transaction.

    I just dislike vague terminology like “smart contracts” lol. But we already broke a DUMB (transaction format) contract!
  • Which one?
  • @6370143984 #10492 02:59 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    every new feature breaks backwards compatibility so counterparty can be either effectively the same protocol it was a decade ago and just hope that people continue to use it out of loyalty or it can learn from the *decade* of development (done with infinite financial resources) since its inception
  • @teysol #10493 03:00 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    and it doesn't follow from the fact that previous protocol changes to Counterparty were botched that all future changes will be...
  • Ethereum, although going forward I will not be answering inquisitorial questions into which blockchain software I run...
  • @mikeinspace #10495 03:01 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Not sure what the overall plans for VM are or how XCP will operate as the gas. My opinion (shared by many) is that the main challenge with XCP (aside from narratives) is that it adds friction. Making the gas component seamless either at the protcol level or the tooling level will go a long way to removing that friction.

    There are other things that can be done at the narrative level if XCP has "baggage" such as rebranding, though really the practical concern about friction is probably the more important consideration.
  • Is ok but it would be cool to share some of that experience. You still running it?
  • @6370143984 #10497 03:02 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I am not but I ran it for years.
  • In the regular world friction implies opportunity, in Counterparty world it stirs up fears of everyone fleeing the platform đŸ€·â€â™€ïž In any case, of course we will all do our best to make it as seamless as possible.
  • Yes this I trust. But adding a general purpose VM is quite a leap in code complexity and maintainability
 at least in comparison to the current limited hard coded approach.

    And i assume node resources will need to be higher
  • (BTW @mikeinspace in case it's not totally obvious I do not understand let alone share the aversion others have to Stamps' use of Counterparty.)
  • Friction implies opportunity in Crypto as well -- early on. For instance, Ordinals were very hard in the beginning and arbitragers took advantage of that. As time goes on, the expectation is that the rough edges get smoothed off for the mass adoption plebs
  • @6370143984 #10502 03:05 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    sure absolutely... but I am surprised that no enterprising member of the technical community is raising their hand to remove the friction.
  • The technical community is very small. They are all in this room.
  • @mikeinspace #10504 03:07 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I do see steps to remove friction tho. RPW now has hardware wallet Ledger support. Its kind of insane how much value exists in hot wallets in this community
  • @mikeinspace #10505 03:08 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    XCP.ninja with integrated wallet that even pays out royalties is a nice UX improvement
  • @mikeinspace #10506 03:10 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Trusted PSBT-support on OpenStamp
  • @hodlencoinfield #10507 03:11 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    lol wasn’t my intention to stir the shit wrt XCP as gas by pointing out that the EVM lets you use ETH natively vs a Counterparty VM that wouldn’t have that same native functionality
  • @hodlencoinfield #10508 03:11 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I am also eager to see what Adam’s plan for a Counterparty VM actually looks like, doesn’t make much sense to criticize something that doesn’t even exist yet
  • The best example here is people choosing numeric assets over named, I built a proof of concept using numerics in 2019 to present at an NFT conference to demonstrate you could use counterparty with bitcoin only, also I believe using numerics for stamps was my idea (correct me if I’m wrong @mikeinspace)
  • @hodlencoinfield #10510 03:14 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I only bring this up as an example, not as a criticism
  • I would definitely give you that credit (and all the hate that comes along with that decision)
  • yep the great irony of all the criticism of Stamps is that they're using numerics _exactly_ as intended... but the intention was based on a botched narrative around XCP
  • If the VM means not requiring hard forks, then maybe it is a good path. But has any blockchain achieved this? From what I’ve seen is the opposite, and the ones without VM (like Bitcoin) are the ones with true backward compatibility
  • @6370143984 #10515 03:18 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    bitcoin has had a dozen or so brilliant people working on it for the past 10-15 years and still all you can do is send bitcoins back and forth in a variety of different ways. With Bitcoin stagnation is a feature not a bug because it's not a platform; it's money.
  • @6370143984 #10516 03:19 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Counterparty pre-dated Ethereum. I remember someone sent us the white paper shortly before Counterparty was launched and Adam's response was basically "uh oh"
  • Do you think stamps would have the success it did if it used named assets?
  • wen lightning and wen chaumian ecash counterparty tokens
  • I mean clearly @mikeinspace is the right person to answer that
  • @mikeinspace #10520 03:21 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I do think that Counterparty is well positioned to leverage a lot of the new hype surrounding L2s and VMs on Bitcoin. Most of those projects are just vaporware, though in a way a vaporware project almost looks more valuable than an actual project lol... that's how it goes...
  • Who knows... can't re-run the experiment again for the first time. Feedback I've heard is that the "Bitcoin purity" narrative was an attractive aspect of the project along with the reduced friction of not requiring xcp.

    I think narrative is very important in crypto and in many ways does trump the actual implementation. For instance, BRC20/SRC20 are absolutely horrible from an implementation peerspective. No one in their right mind would design something like that... yet here we are... BRC20 is by far the most used protocol on Bitcoin.
  • @mikeinspace #10523 03:27 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    SRC20 is 90% of Stamps at this point
  • yeah I mean a lot of money has been shoved into Ordinals world surely because bitcoin zealots missed out on hundreds of billions of dollars of upside in non-money use-cases because they stuck their noses up at shitcoins
  • I can agree that criticism to something that doesn’t exist is not fair. But also, a lot of work and effort can be saved if the upgrade will not be accepted by all node runners.

    I basically started the conversation asking for a simple use case. I haven’t received a specific answer. Only that it will work like an admittedly centralized protocol ETH’s EVM.

    Then I say my concerns and they are labeled as FUD and thumbed down.

    If I’m not convinced, expect me to continue challenging the idea
  • @6370143984 #10526 03:29 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    ?
  • @6370143984 #10527 03:29 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    you absolutely got a 'specific use-case'
  • @6370143984 #10528 03:29 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    but that's totally beside the point: why should anyone's use-case need your approval specifically?
  • @6370143984 #10529 03:30 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Again, for all this talk of decentralization I am really dumbfounded at people's desire to tell other people how to use Counterparty.
  • Maybe I missed the message, what was it?
  • @6370143984 #10531 03:31 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    _all of counterparty could be implemented as smart contracts in a VM_
  • @uanbtc #10532 03:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    So is basically changing the whole thing? Why not do something separate then?
  • @6370143984 #10533 03:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    ?
  • @6370143984 #10534 03:32 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I mean if people want Adam and I can go do something else I guess.
  • Was just curious of your take that’s all
  • Seriously, in terms of narratives, maybe this is the best approach lol. No baggage to handle
  • @6370143984 #10537 03:35 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    đŸ€·â€â™€ïž people seem happy at our reinvolvement
  • Would hope that’s pretty clear at this point
  • Ser.
  • @hodlencoinfield #10540 03:36 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Juan speaks for himself
  • @hodlencoinfield #10541 03:36 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    As we all do
  • @hodlencoinfield #10542 03:37 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Like I said, strawmanning something that doesn’t exist is not helpful, and it wasn’t my intention to stir the shit lol
  • @6370143984 #10543 03:38 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I just never would have guessed that a decade later there would be a non-trivial number of people who are more partial to PhantomPhreak's Vision than PhantomPhreak himself
  • I think you have to look at it from a collector/artist perspective, they created/collected a thing within a certain subset of rules akin to the laws of physics for that digital object
  • @6370143984 #10545 03:39 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Put into the vernacular of the industry: I know it's not a very Chad move to admit when you got things wrong but we got things wrong...
  • @hodlencoinfield #10546 03:39 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    So changing those laws of physics becomes a risk
  • @hodlencoinfield #10547 03:39 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    To them
  • @hodlencoinfield #10548 03:40 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Which could become an opportunity
  • @hodlencoinfield #10549 03:41 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    From a collector mindset nothing is wrong with the platform remaining as is with only small incremental changes to keep it working, large changes are scary because they introduce existential risk
  • @6370143984 #10550 03:42 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    đŸ€·â€â™€ïžwhat if I told you Counterparty had exploited consensus bugs in the wild for the last few years.
  • @6370143984 #10551 03:42 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I understand you're not advocating a position just explaining it but seriously this narrative of a conservatism is not based in reality.
  • I think your strawmanning a bit, no one wants a broken counterparty so obviously issues need to be fixed
  • @6370143984 #10553 03:43 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    but that's exactly the point: no one wanted to fix it.
  • Not true
  • @6370143984 #10555 03:43 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    ...
  • @hodlencoinfield #10556 03:43 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Sir developers that can fix the issues do not grow on trees
  • @hodlencoinfield #10557 03:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I think you know that
  • @6370143984 #10558 03:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I do know that, but that's the deeper issue
  • @6370143984 #10559 03:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    something about Counterparty doesn't attract those kinds of developers
  • @hodlencoinfield #10560 03:44 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Yes and I want more developers working on the protocol, everyone does
  • @hodlencoinfield #10561 03:45 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    You’re strawmanning users by saying “you didn’t fix this so obviously you don’t care about it” when they had no idea anything was broken because it just worked
  • Narrative creates NgU; NgU attracts users; Users attracts devs
 something like that.
  • @hodlencoinfield #10563 03:45 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Of course people want things fixed, no one would argue with that, but you need to know first what’s broken and second how to fix it
  • @hodlencoinfield #10564 03:45 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    That wasn’t there
  • And when it didn’t work, “oh that’s a feature” 😁
  • @hodlencoinfield #10566 03:46 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    As soon as you asked for funding for development did people step up and fund it?
  • this is my point @hodlencoinfield. There's a systemic cultural issue which I think the last decade has pretty definitively shown can be addressed by prioritizing the tech.
  • @6370143984 #10568 03:46 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I am not talking about funding, I am talking about culture.
  • What is the systemic cultural problem? Not being a smart enough developer?
  • @6370143984 #10570 03:47 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    no...?
  • @hodlencoinfield #10571 03:47 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Like I said, how can you address a problem if you don’t know that there is a problem
  • @hodlencoinfield #10572 03:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    How do you know if there’s a problem if you don’t have the expertise to identify it
  • @6370143984 #10573 03:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Sir I do not know what to tell you, you know my position on this
  • @hodlencoinfield #10574 03:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I don’t!
  • @hodlencoinfield #10575 03:48 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I’m not understanding what you’re saying
  • Problems often don’t manifest themselves until they are tested by an adversarial environment. Dispensers being a good example. They worked fine until they didn’t
  • @hodlencoinfield #10577 03:49 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    You say we have a culture problem because no one fixes the protocol problems they didn’t know existed
  • @hodlencoinfield #10578 03:49 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    That’s nonsensical to me
  • @hodlencoinfield #10579 03:50 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Users put their trust in developers everyday by using software they don’t understand
  • What I am saying is that yes only a certain type of developer is suited to working on a system like Counterparty; and they respond to incentives. Those incentives are partially financial and they are partially technological. Counterparty today scratches neither itch. If Counterparty were upgraded to be the kind of platform in which XCP were an emergent requirement of the system the developers would come.
  • @6370143984 #10581 03:51 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    We just fundamentally disagree about the importance of tokenomics.
  • @hodlencoinfield #10582 03:51 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I’m not even talking about xcp
  • @6370143984 #10583 03:51 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I am saying they're related.
  • @6370143984 #10584 03:51 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    inextricably.
  • @6370143984 #10585 03:52 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    You don't agree, which is fine!
  • @hodlencoinfield #10586 03:53 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Can I simplify your position to, developers should show up see that they can buy xcp at a low price then build a better platform to increase the price therefore increasing the value of their investment?
  • @6370143984 #10587 03:53 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I do not know why it has to be simplified but sure?
  • @hodlencoinfield #10588 03:54 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I’m just trying to understand and not put words in your mouth
  • @6370143984 #10589 03:54 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    like, has everything been subsidized by VCs for so long that people just forgot that Bitcoin's survival (let alone thriving) is kind of miraculous
  • You’re strawmanning again, a lot of value has been built on top of counterparty without VCs, literally no one here is asking for them
  • Ok if that’s accurate then shouldn’t the low price of XCP over the years drawn in a plethora of devs based on that theory?
  • @6370143984 #10592 03:57 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    no because the narrative around XCP has been that its a nuisance which can and should be avoided at all costs
  • That’s an emergent narrative
  • @6370143984 #10594 03:58 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    yes, and I believe that if it can be changed then we can change the dev culture
  • @6370143984 #10595 03:58 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    there's an extreme hostility in the technical community to change. If you have the skills you'd be foolish not to apply them to a different crypto network
  • agreed, and to my extreme surprise there hasn't been corresponding activity with respect to the protocol, itself. The VC thing isn't a strawman; it's how _blockchains_ (not apps!) have gotten built since Ethereum. Whether or not you're asking for such a subsidy it's an implicit requirement if you want XCP to remain untethered from the system and have a good, stable, regularly improving platform.
  • @uanbtc #10597 04:15 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Man we are repeating the same cycle.

    Counterparty HAD NO DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, just until a couple of months ago!

    It was all Jdog. Everyone trusted him.

    When I started and saw the technical decisions that were made, and looked at the code, it was clear that the dev culture needed to change.

    And at that critical point, my strategy (narrative) was about “we need to decentralize this”. Jdog cannot be the sole responsible for code changes.

    @hodlencoinfield knows the story. And I have to apologize to him for having to bring this up. But I was very critical of him and that he was “approving” Jeremy’s changes without deep review and analysis. As he put it, they were “benign upgrades for the community”.

    Since we have worked out differences and moved on and I truly respect that.

    But now the founders come at a point when the groundwork of caring about the development state of the protocol was set.

    But they don’t know this story.

    And now coming and criticizing here about the development state is totally out of place.

    So, to conclude, I would just say that we need to communicate respectfully. Try to understand our different perspectives. Let’s discuss the technology instead of charged characterizations.
  • @hodlencoinfield #10598 04:54 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    I agree with that last paragraph wholeheartedly.
  • @6370143984 #10599 05:06 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    >And now coming and criticizing here about the development state is totally out of place.

    you realize this only happened after you told me that maybe we should work on a different platform, right?
  • Only? But ok, let’s move on
  • @hodlencoinfield #10601 05:14 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    * taps on last paragraph of Juan’s previous post *
  • @ABlue0ne #10602 07:28 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Hackers

    Cereal Killer, Phantom Phreak, Crash Override...if these handles appear on your computer screen, you're beyond saving--consider yourself hacked. In this cyberpunk thriller, a renegade group of elite teenage computer hackers rollerblade through New York City by day and ride the information highway by night. After hacking into a high-stakes industrial conspiracy, they become prime suspects and must recruit the best of the cybernet underground to help clear their names.

  • @camzjamz #10603 08:14 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    Joined.
  • @6370143984 #10604 08:54 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    @marceh0le just updated the docs to show how to run kickstart with Docker: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Documentation/blob/bc5416136e3b6797fc6eed60bbd5619895ce83b1/docs/advanced/how-to/docker-kickstart.md

    As said several times, kickstart is going away with v11 (i.e. in a month or two) but for those who want to use kickstart with docker now have at it.
  • @6370143984 #10605 09:46 PM, 30 Mar 2024
    @teysol pointed out elsewhere you first have to update to latest pre-release, rc.1: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core/releases
    Releases · CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core

    Counterparty Protocol Reference Implementation. Contribute to CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core development by creating an account on GitHub.

  • 31 March 2024 (8 messages)
  • @B0BSmith #10606 11:53 AM, 31 Mar 2024
    I notice 'get_tx_info' could do with some love

    I find it wont even display an enhanced send destination address.

    It would be very very nice if get_tx_info were to work for all Counterparty message types

    I am finding I have to extract the op_return from a tx hex, then rc4 decode the op return then further decode the hex encoded counterparty data to get useful information, that can be show to a user JPJA tx decode is useful to help do this client side but 'get_tx_info' doing it would be amazing
  • @6370143984 #10607 12:14 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    could you file an issue?
  • @6370143984 #10608 12:17 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    sounds like a great feature to add. thanks, bob.
  • @B0BSmith #10609 12:19 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    I will open a github issue .. It would be ace to have that feature working well with all messages types
  • @6370143984 #10610 12:19 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    yep that'd be great. good idea!
  • @B0BSmith #10611 12:45 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    issue 1573 created
  • @B0BSmith #10612 01:08 PM, 31 Mar 2024
    Ahh .. I found the solution in the unpack() command, the destination address is shown in get_tx_info only when doing a legacy send, unpack() is needed for an enhanced send
  • Hey, if anyone is interested in continuing my work on xcp.dev new interface (https://960.xcp.dev/) please let me know.

    I moved on to other things for now and so I haven't done much lately.
    I can give a few pointers to the person that wants to continue on it.

    Thanks