• 08 January 2024 (332 messages)
  • @6370143984 #1925 11:26 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    do you remember visacoin?! they raised $100k to 'pay for your KFC with digital gold'
  • @teysol #1926 11:26 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    right, but how does the recipient of the asset check that he received it? again, he'd have to rely 100% on xchain... so it's just the same attack as the one we talked about before
  • @6370143984 #1927 11:26 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    that is incorrect
  • @6370143984 #1928 11:26 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    that's the point: freewallet gets balances from xchain
  • @teysol #1929 11:27 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    then the problem is *that*
  • @teysol #1930 11:27 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    and specifically that freewallet says "Counterparty" on it, when it's really jdogparty
  • @6370143984 #1931 11:28 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    🤷‍♀️ anyone can spin up their own free wallet instance I think?
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1931 #1932 11:28 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @6370143984 #1933 11:28 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    it's OSS; can put whatever banner they want...
  • @teysol #1934 11:28 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    I mean anyone can create a "Bitcoin" wallet that steals money from you. This is like that
  • @6370143984 #1935 11:28 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Sure but this is the default wallet of the community, seems.
  • @teysol #1936 11:29 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    does J-Dog control the domain?
  • @XJA77 #1937 11:29 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    this is why we dont want to release a new freewallet we just want to change the api who call to get balances
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1936 #1938 11:29 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    counterparty.io?
  • @XJA77 #1939 11:29 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @XJA77 #1940 11:29 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    freewallet.io? yes too
  • @teysol #1941 11:30 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    well now that's a real problem
  • @XJA77 #1942 11:31 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    if we can change that api not
  • @teysol #1943 11:31 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    how do we change anything if he controls the domain?
  • @6370143984 #1944 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    that change needs to be part of a freewallet release, not just your own fork @XJA77
  • @6370143984 #1945 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    in order to really mitigate the damage
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1944 #1946 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    not really is an option in the wallet
  • @XJA77 #1947 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    you can change the api
  • @XJA77 #1948 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    or at least seems to be
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #1930 #1949 11:32 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    He should be removed from all official channels. Is what I would do because of his actions against be social contract
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #1947 #1950 11:33 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    yes but he controls freewallet.io ...
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1950 #1952 11:33 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    if people dont upgrade wallet should be okey?
  • @XJA77 #1953 11:33 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    unless he want to pain comunity
  • @XJA77 #1954 11:33 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    more
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #1880 #1955 11:33 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    apparently it's the default behavior?
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1955 #1956 11:34 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    i have not upgraded it for many time
  • @teysol ↶ Reply to #1949 #1957 11:34 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    I actually agree. I consider this "fork" to be a malicious attack on the network
  • @XJA77 #1958 11:34 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    it ask for upgrade every time i open so i think is not updating automatic
  • @6370143984 #1959 11:34 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    ah okay so not automatic, but unless you're pretty deep into the community you will default to upgrading. still a big problem.
  • @XJA77 #1961 11:35 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    i know many people that dont update it for years
  • @6370143984 #1962 11:36 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    🤷‍♀️I hear what you're saying but the truth is unless all wallets point to 9.61.x the result will be chaos
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1962 #1963 11:36 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    yes.... but at least people can safely move without need to import private keys to another wallet his assets...
  • @al_fernandz #1964 11:37 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Joined.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1962 #1965 11:37 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    good part is that seems configurable...
  • @teysol #1966 11:37 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    IMO, at a *minimum*, J-Dog needs to indicate everywhere he's using the fork that he is doing so
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #1957 #1967 11:37 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    I believe the main channel to protect is the repo. There are people in this chat that can revoke his privileges
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #1967 #1968 11:39 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Then, counterparty.io

    Social media is also important, but the least imo

    See: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/cips/discussions/97
    Remove the word "official" from social media · CounterpartyXCP/cips · Discussion #97

    Lets promote decentralization by not claiming to be the "official" source of data for anything other than the PROTOCOL repository. Looking specifically at: t.me/CounterpartyXCP But then t...

  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1920 #1969 11:39 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    seems momentarily and yes this issuance substract xcp just from the 9.62
  • @uanbtc #1970 11:40 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Nothing changes in the transaction message so both versions should see it. And the new one will make it invalid if there is not enough xcp
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #1970 #1971 11:41 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    I think nothing changes, haven’t verified his code
  • @6370143984 #1972 11:41 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Okay cool. I'd have assumed that the msg format for 9.62 numeric issuances was unparseable by 9.61
  • @6370143984 #1973 11:41 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    but if I'm wrong, great!
  • @XJA77 #1974 11:42 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    this change was done between 960 and 961
  • @6370143984 #1975 11:43 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    which change? adding a fee to numeric issuances? sorry, i'm out of the loop.
  • @uanbtc #1976 11:45 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Well from 9.59 to 9.60 the issuance message was changed in a non-backward compatible way. A nasty mess.

    Then the message was changed again from 9.60 to 9.61, to “clean up” the mess a bit, but still not fully. The 9.59 issuance format is not detected.

    All these done without the due CIP process
  • @6370143984 #1977 11:48 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    okay, but those only caused inadvertant chain splits, not intentional ones, right?
  • @6370143984 #1978 11:54 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    I ask because bugs that result in hard forks are chaotic, but shouldn't be considered hostile.
  • @6370143984 #1979 11:55 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Push a hotfix and infra providers upgrade and things should be relatively calm. But in this case the issue is that the hard fork will be long-lived, and is supported by someone who controls a lot of critical infrastrucure.
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #1977 #1980 11:56 PM, 08 Jan 2024
    Yeah, some assets lost for v9.59 to v9.60 All the ones done on non-JDoge nodes like one I had

    It proved how centralized the protocol was.

    All inspiration for github.com/CNTRPRTY
    Bitcoin and Counterparty Tools

    Decentralizing CNTRPRTY: "Counterparty is Bitcoin. Is on top of Bitcoin. Is Web3. Is Web5. Two steps ahead." 🐸 - Bitcoin and Counterparty Tools

  • 09 January 2024 (865 messages)
  • @XJA77 #1981 12:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    mmm strange
  • @XJA77 #1983 12:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    showing issuances for stamps again xchain api?
  • @XJA77 #1984 12:39 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but not in the ui
  • @XJA77 #1985 12:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    looks like he is using other api for the xchain website?
  • @6370143984 #1986 12:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    will this address any concern about misreported balances on freewallet?
  • @B0BSmith #1987 12:44 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    https://xchain.io/api/issuances/824906

    https://www.xcp.dev/block/824906
  • @6370143984 #1988 12:45 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    So, no. Dang.
  • @XJA77 #1990 12:46 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    so just some blocks
  • @6370143984 #1991 12:46 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Well I think the hard fork only took effect today
  • @6370143984 #1992 12:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    so any numeric issuances predating its activation would show up on 9.62.
  • @XJA77 #1993 12:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    mmm is strange
  • @B0BSmith #1994 12:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    jdog fork can has less xcp if some burnt making numeric
  • @6370143984 #1995 12:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    correct
  • @B0BSmith #1996 12:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    does not sound good
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #1994 #1997 12:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    now it has less xcp actually
  • freewallet.io has always been a terrible name for a wallet because there's a freewallet.org and often users mistakenly go there and get their funds drained.
  • @mikeinspace #1999 12:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Its a custodial wallet too. A few people have accidently installed it used it to receive assets and they are stuck forever because you can't get at the private key
  • @B0BSmith #2000 12:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    and counterwallet stopped getting the latest features
  • @sn_noop2 #2001 01:03 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Hi, as of the xchain thingy, I'm up to help on xcp.dev if needed.

    Let me know if ever
  • @XJA77 #2002 01:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think i have found something, could be possible that freewallet if dont detect xchain throws the balance query to counterparty.io
  • @XJA77 #2003 01:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    no images
  • @XJA77 #2004 01:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but numerics arises again
  • @jdogresorg #2005 01:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Joined.
  • @jdogresorg #2006 01:08 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    if ya got questions about xchain, maybe ask direct
  • @jdogresorg #2008 01:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    xchain APIs are not showing all data on 9.62.0 ledger.... numerics exist on 9.62.0 ledger, but NOT displayed on xchain... xchain now doesn't parse in any of those annoying numeric spam issuances... so, even with continued spamming numerics, xchain stays up
  • @jdogresorg #2009 01:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    also.. freewallet pulls all its XCP data from xchain.io APIs.. there is no failover cuz there is no other API for CP except CP API, and it can't handle the load
  • @jdogresorg #2010 01:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    everything is open source, feel free to go review the source code and see what is happening rather than guessing... or ask direct
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2007 #2011 01:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    have you added support back for numeric on xchain apis?
  • @XJA77 #2012 01:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    why i can see it in my freewallet when removing the host api
  • @sn_noop2 #2013 01:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Cache
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2013 #2014 01:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    dont think so
  • @jdogresorg #2015 01:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    nope... once all this fork drama is sorted out, then I will probably be adding support for ALL numerics back to XChain.io, as that is what I want to do... but, to be clear, XChain will only be running a version of counterparty-lib which has a fee on numerics going forward.
  • @jdogresorg #2016 01:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Lets stop with the back and forth who is good and who is bad and whatnot and move forward... most of you here hate me neway... so, assume i'm a hostile actor and take actions to move counterparty development forward in a decentralized way... its what you have all said you wanted, this is what it looks like
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2007 #2017 01:14 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    why i can see back my spam in freewallet just removing the xchain.io host in settings
  • @XJA77 #2018 01:15 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    added this and they arises
  • @jdogresorg #2019 01:16 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I just gave dev control back to the community 2 months ago by adding 3 more devs to core dev team.... and I just said, after much deliberation, "this is is the direction I think Counterparty should go, I'm on a fork, you guys figure it out".... its on you guys now to decide what community wants... everyone has opinions, few actually contribute... Step up, dont have me to blame for problems going forward.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2013 #2020 01:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes was cached
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2017 #2021 01:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    dunno.. maybe cached data... will look into it when I have time... all I know is freewallet.io points at xchain.io APIs... and all xchain APIs are hiding numerics (may be a few API calls I misssed, but overall just hiding numeric assets with a simple flag... one flick of that flag and all numerics reappear
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2021 #2022 01:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    keep your flag ser
  • @XJA77 #2023 01:20 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    do you know we have difference balances between both ledgers right now?
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2023 #2024 01:20 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    xcp has it
  • @jdogresorg #2025 01:21 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yup differences are expected in a ledger fork... best for CP to figure out path forward for counterparty-lib n put out a release soon... or do nothing n see what happens.... forced decentralization 🤷️️️️️️
  • @XJA77 #2026 01:24 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    so you see how you are a dictator
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2022 #2027 01:24 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    hey man... just trying to offer an olive branch... it is in the best interst of everyone involved if we have a single ledger and an explorer which shows ALL assets, including numerics... We are where we are now... looking to cause less drama, not more 🤷️️️️️️
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2026 #2028 01:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    ok... back to more hate... tuning out here... tho will be monitoring, as I have since this channel was created 👍️️️️️️
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2027 #2029 01:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    don`t seems to entering in the group where we all working to figure out how to fix this and spreading fud
  • @XJA77 #2030 01:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    we are trying to replicate your api to dont hit it anymore you should be happy
  • @jdogresorg #2031 01:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    questions were being asked about xchain APIs and Freewallet functionality... I felt it was important for clarity during this critical time... my bad I guess... I'll go back to being quiet and letting you wonder what is going on rather than answering your questions 🤷️️️️
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2030 #2032 01:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I am happy... a faster database for counterparty and an API that supports way more queries is a win for everyone 👍️️️️
  • @XJA77 #2033 01:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes for sure
  • @XJA77 #2034 01:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    regarding to this, where are you taking the images from? most of links are broken
  • @XJA77 #2035 01:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    a bootstrap of them would be usefull
  • @hodlencoinfield #2036 01:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    From my perspective, Jdog’s fork is not counterparty
  • @hodlencoinfield #2037 01:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    The activation on a whim actually makes it easy to dismiss, because there was no time for anyone to do anything or establish any sort of consensus, so even if there was some type of consensus around an xcp fee on numerics (which there didn’t appear to be) it’s too late because his fork was out of consensus on the next block
  • @g0barry #2038 01:52 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I don't think it would reach consensus, for the fact the protocol change wouldn't do what it supposedly was supposed to do
  • @g0barry #2039 01:52 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    It would not be an effective anti-spam measure
  • Sure but that’s really beside the point
  • @g0barry #2041 01:52 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yeah
  • @g0barry #2042 01:52 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Agree
  • @g0barry #2043 01:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    My point is separate, in that the stated purpose seems disingenuous at its face
  • @g0barry #2044 01:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    If the goal is to burn more XCP to pump the price, don't pretend its anything other than that
  • @hodlencoinfield #2045 01:54 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    The big risk as I see it is someone trading for a numeric they issued post fork using the dex, basically creating a phantom version of their asset then trying to sell it to someone and giving them an xchain link
  • @6370143984 #2046 01:55 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    There's a few legitimate attacks, unfortunately.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2047 01:55 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yep, not good for the average user
  • @B0BSmith #2048 02:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    So the xcp cost to register an asset now depends on which version you run and user can now chose to pay or not pay xcp fees depending on which side they get out of bed by using or being guided to use the appropriate version
  • @B0BSmith #2049 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you can now spend xcp making assets and spend it again on the version you didn't spend it on the first time
  • @B0BSmith #2050 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    or nor?
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2049 #2051 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @hodlencoinfield #2052 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    The dex is really the biggest attack vector here
  • @vm_ea #2053 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Pretty much
  • @hodlencoinfield #2054 02:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Because you can create valid trades on one side that are invalid on the other
  • @hodlencoinfield #2055 02:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Which spoofs the “real” asset holder
  • @B0BSmith #2056 02:08 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    so the quantity of xcp doubled at time of fork
  • @hodlencoinfield #2057 02:08 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    No
  • @hodlencoinfield #2058 02:08 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Bitcoin didn’t double when Bitcoin gold forked off
  • @B0BSmith #2059 02:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    no but you got coins on both chains
  • @hodlencoinfield #2060 02:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yes but the coins on Counterparty Jdog’s Vision are not the same
  • @B0BSmith #2061 02:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    now we got coins on 9.6.2 that burn but don't on 9.6.1
  • @reinamora_137 #2062 02:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    a good way to pay for numerics, and also pay for named assets with the same funds at least
  • @sn_noop2 ↶ Reply to #2061 #2063 02:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I don't think it works like that
  • @reinamora_137 #2064 02:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i have different balances on each version
  • @hodlencoinfield #2065 02:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Xcp balances really aren’t the issue, it’s negligible
  • @reinamora_137 #2067 02:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    one verision shows the burned xcp for a numeric and one does not so my balance is higher on 9.6.1
  • @B0BSmith #2069 02:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I just trying to work it out ... seems you can use xcp more than once
  • @hodlencoinfield #2070 02:11 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    The issue is I can trade a rarepepe to myself for a numeric I created post fork without xcp
  • @hodlencoinfield #2071 02:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    That Tx would be invalid on jdogchain
  • @sn_noop2 ↶ Reply to #2067 #2072 02:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    lol it does?
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2067 #2073 02:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    makes sense. so in 9.6.2 your issuance tx will be rejected if you have an insufficient XCP balance but otherwise will automatically debit .1 XCP
  • @hodlencoinfield #2074 02:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    So then I could sell someone rarepepe and give them an xchain link
  • @hodlencoinfield #2075 02:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    They will think they have it but the reality is I moved it to another address with my numeric dex trade
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2074 #2076 02:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah this is the attack @herpenstein described earlier. Most serious one I can think of. Doesn't even require the DEx
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2072 #2077 02:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you can see the screenshots i sent one from xchain api other from api.counterparty.io
  • @B0BSmith ↶ Reply to #2075 #2078 02:14 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    that makes sense
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2059 #2079 02:15 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this is the correct way to think about it. your balance was replicated on a new ledger
  • @B0BSmith #2080 02:16 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    now there are multiple ledgers .. xchain and community
  • @XJA77 #2082 02:16 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this is the tx
  • @6370143984 #2083 02:16 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    forking is part of the game; some forks are more disruptive than others, depending on which community members/service providers embrace the minority fork.
  • @6370143984 #2084 02:17 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this one can do some damage.
  • @vm_ea #2086 02:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Is there any way we could keep track of these possibly nefarious actions?
  • Absolutely, it would all be onchain
  • @6370143984 #2088 02:21 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    exactly, but you'll have to pay attention. xchain shouldn't be treated as a golden record, and all wallets, ideally, would not only make all txs but all balance reads from 9.61.x
  • @6370143984 #2089 02:21 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    the latter is the biggest issue ATM as far as I can tell.
  • @vm_ea ↶ Reply to #2088 #2090 02:22 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yes exactly, so do we keep a read only version of cp running?
  • @6370143984 #2091 02:22 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think you can use xcp.dev?
  • @blockjack8 ↶ Reply to #2086 #2092 02:22 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    maybe track any asset traded for stamps and double mark if its sent to a dispenser. As this is the major source of sales right now. Im pretty sure we havent seen more than 10 trades using the dex for Stamps.
  • @blockjack8 #2093 02:22 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but extra work when everyone is trying to catch up with current events.
  • @vm_ea ↶ Reply to #2092 #2094 02:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    That’s a good idea. And perhaps we could keep track of any asset associated with an xcp burn and flag it
  • @mikeinspace #2095 02:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I know this isn't the best solution from an optics perspective but changing the Counterparty header would add replay protection. It is sort of "ceding" Counterparty to Jdog, if the header is what makes a fork "official" but it would save having to do all this other work.
  • @6370143984 #2096 02:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    the optics on that one are indeed rough.
  • @mikeinspace #2097 02:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    although it would definitely double every asset which i guess would be worse
  • @6370143984 #2098 02:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    and yeah i don't know that it addresses some of the more serious attacks.
  • @6370143984 #2099 02:31 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    IMO the issue isn't really folks running counterparty nodes getting duped, but people relying on third-party tools running incompatible versions of the software.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2094 #2100 02:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but this ones are not the problem, problem are the ones who doesnt pay the fee
  • @blockjack8 ↶ Reply to #2094 #2101 02:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    We already created one for the meme.
  • @blockjack8 #2102 02:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
  • That’s a bad idea
  • @hodlencoinfield #2104 02:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    IMO
  • I agree... I thought it through a bit more
  • @6370143984 #2106 02:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    @jdogresorg would you hard fork your hard fork and change the tx prefix to avoid replay attacks? it won't solve everything but it would help mitigate a type of attack that really can't be avoided otherwise...
  • how does this help? we still end up with 2 of everything?
  • @6370143984 #2108 02:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    there are different kinds of 2 of everything
  • 2 of everything = value destruction. we should try to avoid
  • @6370143984 #2110 02:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    sure but you want txs on one chain necessarily to be invalid on the other.
  • this is what they call being stuck between a rock and a hard place
  • @6370143984 #2112 02:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah, there are no pretty solutions here.
  • @jdogresorg #2113 02:44 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    true... community should have built more wallets and full explorers years ago.... time for growth... unfortunate it has to be forced this way 🤷️️️️️️
  • @6370143984 #2114 02:44 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    everyone has a right to run the version of the software they want but there are ways to mitigate the damage incrementally. replay protection is one of them, and it's not unreasonable to expect the fork that made the breaking change to implement it.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2115 02:58 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    even roger did that with bitcoin cash
  • @6370143984 #2116 03:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    wow that's a name I haven't heard in a while...
  • @6370143984 #2117 03:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    What the heck is he up to?
  • @hodlencoinfield #2118 03:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i saw he just got his black belt in bjj
  • @hodlencoinfield #2119 03:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    lol
  • @6370143984 #2120 03:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    well hopefully that is helpful to the bitcoin cash community lol
  • @hodlencoinfield #2121 03:02 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    probly my favorite roger moment is his debate with jimmy song on some weird bitcoin cruise ship thing
  • @uanbtc #2122 03:24 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Jeremy, you are welcome to stay here. Well, maybe you already were (@ChiefSamyaza)

    You have been so accustomed to not having to deal with other node operators, that you might have forgotten the principles of the type of protocol counterparty is.

    If this was a layer 1 blockchain, your actions are not so wrong. All tokens get duplicated at the block activation and “everybody wins”, in that it then becomes a competition for relevancy.

    Counterparty is different

    We are following the CNTRPRTY messages. And we need to agree on what they mean.

    And you have been privileged in gaining the trust of the community, to the point that mostly everyone relied on your products…

    But there was always a risk. What if, he decides to single-handedly change the protocol.

    And you just did that.

    Please reconsider your actions, or be respectful to the project and community by changing your tx prefix.

    If you do that, then you are free to do your ideas, and some will follow for sure.

    But don’t affect everyone (including your bags), just to prove a point. And even more when you know alternatives have been getting build for the last years, and the protocol is being used more than ever!

    This is good! The protocol works. And if you need help with xchain, see how things are done on the open source alternatives.

    This is 100% in your hands
  • @jdogresorg #2123 03:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    true, consider me an attack... do what is necessary to defend against the attack... build the infastructure to support what you feel is best for CP... I have..... we all know this sucks right now, but in the long-run, good for CP dev, we having more dev conversations and talk about optimizations now than in the past few years.
  • @jdogresorg #2124 03:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    playing telephone game between multiple dev channels is so much fun 🙄️️️️️️
  • @uanbtc #2125 03:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Read my message
  • @hodlencoinfield #2126 03:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you’re really downplaying the potential damage you’re causing
  • @hodlencoinfield #2127 03:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    all of us know to wait out this chaotic moment but the average counterparty collector does not
  • @hodlencoinfield #2128 03:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    and you gave us a month and everyone started working on alternatives then just decided to completely disregard that and make the change immediately, throwing everything into disarray
  • @hodlencoinfield #2129 03:31 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    as a developer you should feel a certain responsibility to the users of your products, especially in crypto
  • @hodlencoinfield #2130 03:32 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    users trust developers because they dont understand how things work under the hood and betraying that trust looks bad on everyone
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2126 #2131 03:34 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    changing the CNTRPRTY prefix wont solve anything....

    Lets play this out...

    I change the prefix on my fork to use JDOGPARTY encoding in the messages...

    Transactions with JDOGPARTY prefix only generated when ppl generate txs with my forked version

    Freewallet runs on api.counterparty.io to generate transactions... api.counterparty.io is on "Counterparty" 9.61.1

    People still use Freewallet, People still generate txs with CNTRPARTY prefix...

    Changing the CNTRPARTY prefix in this instance doesnt solve the problem of replay protection
  • @hodlencoinfield #2132 03:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes it does, because they’d instantly see the tx they created in freewallet doesnt show up on xchain
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2128 #2133 03:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    to be clear... I gave everyone 9 months... could have pushed fork in May... I did push fork with activation block in 1 month to push dev conveersations forward n make progress... I saw the progress, am happy about it, and think it should continue... but, woke up to more of the same bullshit... smile to my face and say cooperation and then behind my back continue with bad behavior.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2134 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    cmon
  • @jdogresorg #2135 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I put up warning on xchain saying I am on forked version... fine with playing with the wording to make it sound more serious if you want.... but wont tell ppl to stop using counterparty for 30 days
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2133 #2136 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    ser we were not aware of that minting happening openstamp guys launched it without ask or tell anyone
  • @hodlencoinfield #2137 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you created a PR with 30 day clock to activation
  • @hodlencoinfield #2138 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    why would you do that if you didnt mean it
  • @hodlencoinfield #2139 03:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    was it a ruse?
  • @jdogresorg #2140 03:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I just told you..
  • @jdogresorg #2141 03:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but, woke up to more of the same bullshit... smile to my face and say cooperation and then behind my back continue with bad behavior.
  • @jdogresorg #2142 03:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    done
  • @hodlencoinfield #2143 03:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    who are you referring to
  • @hodlencoinfield #2144 03:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this affects everyone
  • @hodlencoinfield #2145 03:39 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    it didnt say “30 days unless i wake up and feel disrespected by the blockchain"
  • @i3inary #2146 03:40 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i can host a space for high bandwidth conversations if anyone wants it
  • @jdogresorg #2147 03:40 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    stamps devs... who elses... privately DM me saying they agree with my decision to force fork and its good for decentralization.... then I go to sleep... wake up and xchain is down... "mysteriously" thousands of numerics are being spammed in isuances and now sends (new tactic, kudos).... and I check chats and its all "X-Chain sucks, Stamps are fine, must be sucky infastructure at xchain"..... tired of playing fucking games.
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2145 #2148 03:40 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    true.... consider me an attack on counterparty then and take the necessary actions to defend it
  • @hodlencoinfield #2149 03:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you are affecting ALL COUNTERPARTY USERS
  • @vm_ea #2150 03:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    This will be an ongoing spiral tbh. The fork is here and there’s no going back now. It seems that we have our heads in the right place and can get through it. It would help if he changed the prefix, but again that would be taking his word for it and he could change it any point. It’s not necessarily the best foundation to start on
  • @hodlencoinfield #2151 03:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    true its not worth arguing
  • @hodlencoinfield #2152 03:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    whats done is done
  • @i3inary #2153 03:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    can we quick migrate to cardano?
  • " "mysteriously" thousands of numerics are being spammed"

    You keep repeating this as if anyone in this room had anything to do with it. Believe it or not there are more stamps devs outside this room than in it. And its not a happy, cooperative bunch either. There are tons of heated disagreements that take place. We don't control the protocol or what others decide to do.
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2146 #2155 03:45 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    doing a twitter spaces on thursday with emblem vaults team... prolly will spill out there... done for the day 🤷️️️️️️
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2133 #2156 03:45 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Coming from an expert on double talk.
    If you are only here for more drama, please don't
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2155 #2157 03:46 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Break a leg
  • @jdogresorg ↶ Reply to #2154 #2158 03:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    setting up a project that unfairly spams numerics, when you know it is controversial within the community, continuing to spam numerics, and then claiming "its not us, its our users" is not being genuine mike... take some blame... I forced this fork, you setup this situation, and fanned the flames.... just didn't expect it to go this way... neither did I... but we are where we are, lets move forward.
  • @krostue #2159 03:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    No more drama here
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2122 #2160 03:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Read please
  • @jdogresorg #2161 03:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    cool.. now Is when I get booted from the "decentralized" channel 👍️️️️️️
  • @XJA77 #2162 03:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    anyone will boot you
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2161 #2163 03:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    :shovel:
    Pathetic raid btw
  • @jdogresorg #2164 03:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    cool... way more centralized than "official" counterparty dev channel where no one is booted... been removed from here twice already, whats one more third time.. whats done is done.
  • @jdogresorg #2165 03:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Left.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2166 03:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    thats not true i booted mikeinspace and gmoney just the other day
  • @XJA77 #2168 03:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    now we talk with !J-Dog
  • @vm_ea #2169 03:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    He’s still here…
  • @krostue #2170 03:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Jeremy removed me multiple times. Demoted me when I was the community manager
  • @vm_ea #2171 03:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    He said he has ways of monitoring
  • @i3inary #2172 03:50 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    humans know this lesson
  • @vm_ea #2173 03:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Maybe he’ll see us working together and change his ways idk
  • @i3inary #2174 03:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    absolute power corrupts absolutely
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2169 #2175 03:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    He suffers from FUDSOLO
  • @vm_ea ↶ Reply to #2175 #2176 03:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I’m not trying to, I’m just repeating what he said
  • @i3inary #2177 03:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    throwing the ring of power into the volcano and sparta kicking a group of long time associates in at the same time
  • good rule of thumb is to just assume all public chats are public to everyone
  • @hodlencoinfield #2179 03:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    even when they leave
  • @hodlencoinfield #2180 03:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    or never enter in the first place
  • @i3inary #2181 03:54 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    the memes…they will be so dank
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2150 #2182 04:18 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this isn't quite right. implementing replay protection on Jeremy's fork would really be helpful and could prevent loss of funds.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2182 #2183 04:20 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes im with you but i think he wont change the prefix
  • @uanbtc #2184 04:21 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Let him sleep on it…
  • @herpenstein #2185 04:35 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but jdog is using 9.62 for the user visuals on xchain and 9.61 for all tx generation on free wallet.

    So transactions being generated should still be in consensus with all non forked nodes. Generating transactions that would be invalid will cause the API to throw an error.

    Assets will only begin to go out or consensus if users go out of there way to change their settings to make api calls to his 9.62 node.
  • @6370143984 #2186 04:35 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    balances are retrieved from xchain, which is using 9.62 on the backend
  • @herpenstein #2187 04:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yeah I get that, but if I try to do something a 9.61 api call is made
  • @herpenstein #2188 04:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    So the tx generation will be in consensus
  • @6370143984 #2189 04:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes, but if you create a numeric asset it won't show up in your balance
  • @herpenstein #2190 04:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Even if the users visuals aren’t
  • @6370143984 #2191 04:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes, the issue isn't consensus in this case but certain types of attacks it enables
  • @6370143984 #2192 04:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    there are two sets of issues: which version of the software a service is running, and whether jeremy's fork has replay protection. first one can be worked around and be accepted as the cost of decentralization; the second is much tougher
  • Since no one is generating txs with 9.62, is replay protection a problem?
  • @herpenstein #2194 04:39 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Because I can’t generate tx out of sync with the api
  • @herpenstein #2195 04:40 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I’m understand the long term effects of the two separate versions when many txs are generated in both
  • @herpenstein #2196 04:41 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    But he hasn’t updated freewallet to default to generating txs that can go out of consensus
  • @herpenstein #2197 04:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    It would seem that the impact is currently just superficial
  • @herpenstein #2198 04:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Perhaps I’m missing something?
  • @6370143984 #2199 04:52 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    the issue is that an attacker can watch the 9.61.x chain and replay the transactions on the 9.62 chain. whereas some other attacks can't really be called thefts, this one pretty directly is.
  • @6370143984 #2201 04:54 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I don't know what end-users or service providers can do to prevent replay attacks with replay protection built into the minority fork.
  • @6370143984 #2202 04:55 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    It's possible that Counterparty being a metaprotocol limits or changes its vulnerability to replays. Will let @teysol weigh in when he's around.
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2197 #2203 05:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    again, if replays are similar on Counterparty to how they work on layer-1s, then it's not superficial: loss of funds is a real possibility.
  • @6370143984 #2204 05:03 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    been a while since I looked into it but I know it's definitely possible to replay txs on the chain that hardforked form the one that didn't but don't know whether it's possible to go the opposite way. don't see how it could be; if it were it'd be trivial to commit massive theft on BTC
  • @herpenstein #2205 05:04 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Since it’s a Bitcoin metaprotocol though, any time a tx is sent; both forks see it. I don’t think replays are a viable attack vector.

    I think It’s a more nuanced balance discrepancy based attack wherein you are able to spend xcp you don’t have on one chain, or create assets that already exist in the other
  • @herpenstein #2206 05:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I’ll definitely have to think about it more. It’s a unique fork
  • @herpenstein #2207 05:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Regardless it’s bad
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2207 #2208 05:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah pretty much. really a matter of in what ways and how bad.
  • @mikeinspace #2209 05:08 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    My read is that the vulnerability would need to involve a numeric minted post-fork so that it exists on one fork but not the other. Then setting up a DEX trade for, say, a named asset. I'm not sure there are any other situations that are an attack vector.
  • @mikeinspace #2210 05:09 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Numeric minted on jdog fork would be fine as I don't think we can detect/discriminate against those on our side, but one minted on our side would be invalid on his (lack of xcp burn)
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2210 #2211 05:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    unless you have xcp in the wallet that will be deducted automatic
  • @6370143984 #2212 05:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    @mikeinspace with regards to something you said earlier: just to be clear, there already are two ledgers and as soon as they start diverging they should be treated as being entirely separate. so assets already are duplicated
  • @6370143984 #2213 05:10 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    (and ofc they started diverging immediately.)
  • I get that, but I don't see how they would diverge without someone executing this specific vulnerability. The 2 ledgers should still be in sync, no?
  • how tho?
  • @6370143984 #2216 05:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    numeric assets minted on the majority chain after the minority chain's hard fork activated do not exist on the latter. that's a divergence.
  • @6370143984 #2217 05:12 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    XCP balances are out of sync, too.
  • yes, I get that. I don't get why xcp balances would be out of sync already as stamps aren't really traded on the dex
  • @6370143984 #2219 05:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Again, this is not a typical fork so I'm still gaming it through, but changing the prefix would just be making something clean that's already happened in an inelegant way. (I could be missing something!)
  • @mikeinspace #2220 05:14 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    There would need to be an invalid purchase for the xcp balance to go out of sync. Maybe that's happened... I just never really see DEX usage with numerics, and its particularly hard now that they are hidden
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2218 #2221 05:15 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    so @XJA77 perhaps you can weigh in but it seems that if an address with at least .1XCP issues an asset on 9.62 its XCP balance will be different from what it is on 9.61
  • ahhh... yeah... hadn't thought about that
  • it would need to be a numeric asset though... and those are kinda hard to mint right now in freewallet (unless you're deliberate about it... like one of us devs assessing the situation)
  • this happened on my numeric asset I issued as a test... I issued against the 9.61 release ofc, but had XCP in my wallet.

    Our node didn't recognize that requiring the xcp so it didn't deduct from my balance, but 62 did.
  • well yeah... you're Kevin... I mean the average user
  • @6370143984 #2226 05:18 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    unfortunately that's irrelevant in consensus systems :-/
  • I guess my only point is that this shouldnt be a wide-scale issue... yet
  • @reinamora_137 #2228 05:18 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i was super confused by that, because I thought the xcp came out when the transaction was signed/broadcast. . . but evidently it's only recorded after CP reads BTC and updates it's internal balances...
  • @reinamora_137 #2229 05:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    it is if people have xcp in their wallets by chance I guess
  • @6370143984 #2230 05:19 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i mean it's also a UX nightmare if people are writing to the ledger with 9.61 and reading with 9.62
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2227 #2232 05:21 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    if they have xcp already it is....
  • @reinamora_137 #2233 05:22 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i guess we could scan all stamp holders addresses for xcp and get a general idea of the scale of the potential issue. might be a fruitless exercise.
  • clear this up for me tho: the only "tooling" enforcing the xcp fee is freewallet (but freewallet is also hidding numerics), so I would think the liklihood of minting numerics on freewallet (right now) is quite low.. outside of testing scenerios like Kevin did (probably directly with the api)
  • @6370143984 #2235 05:23 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    freewallet actually *isn't* enforcing the XCP fee
  • @reinamora_137 #2236 05:23 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    no the only thing enforcing the xcp is xchain. the wallet doesn't do anything with the xcp balance
  • but xchain is suppressing numerics... god Im confused
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2230 #2238 05:24 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this is what's happening
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2233 #2239 05:24 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this will be a good exercise imo
  • @reinamora_137 #2240 05:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    well if anyone is using xchain apis to get their balance then it's not really correct in our view.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2240 #2241 05:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    freewallet does
  • @XJA77 #2242 05:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but any other i think
  • @6370143984 #2243 05:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    you guys afaict have two independent issues viz. xchain: first, the 9.62 issue; second, not all stamps are removed.
  • @reinamora_137 #2244 05:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    really odd because i could deplete my balance making numeric assets, but then still have xcp on 9.61 to create named assets (which then would show invalid on 62) but valid on 61
  • @6370143984 #2245 05:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes, forks are ugly :-/
  • @reinamora_137 #2246 05:26 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    quite the thought experiment of what that entails if Jeremy ever intends to 'merge' back in line somehow
  • @reinamora_137 #2247 05:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i don't see how that's possible though
  • @6370143984 #2248 05:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    can't
  • @6370143984 #2249 05:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    that was the point I was trying to communicate @mikeinspace.
  • @6370143984 #2250 05:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    the fork has happened. changing the prefix would codify that and potentially add some important protections.
  • @reinamora_137 #2251 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    ah sorry i missed some of the chat. was busy in the debugger 🙂
  • @XJA77 #2252 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    only option of merge would be accept the fork in our side and reparse our nodes
  • @6370143984 #2253 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    he'd have to reset balances
  • @6370143984 #2254 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    it's not a mined chain so can't do a reorg
  • @XJA77 #2255 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    but this wont happend
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2253 #2256 05:28 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    why he?
  • @6370143984 #2257 05:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    sorry, I meant users of the minority chain
  • @XJA77 #2258 05:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    if we accept the fork the ones who needs to update balances are us right?
  • @reinamora_137 #2259 05:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah, not sure what the end game is here for xchain. hopefully had thought it through in great detail over these months to some sort of viable outcome.
  • @reinamora_137 #2260 05:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    lots of invalid named assets
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2258 #2261 05:29 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    simple miscommunication
  • @reinamora_137 #2262 05:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    would destroy a lot of those mints today
  • @XJA77 #2263 05:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes true
  • @reinamora_137 #2264 05:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    not really viable with the $ involved there
  • It becomes a BTNS explorer when the reality of the clusterfuck becomes apparent.
  • @6370143984 #2266 05:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah. and this is all independent of any potential replay issues (which I can't think through atm)
  • @reinamora_137 #2267 05:30 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i'm sure that must be the end game. he mentioned that was way more profitable
  • He has 1 year left from the fund-raise he did 3 years ago... so yeah, probably done. Not fun anymore. I dont blame him
  • @mikeinspace #2269 05:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Here's the thing: even if everyone capitulated right now and upgraded to Jdogfork... how do you reconcile the ledgers? They've already diverged.
  • @reinamora_137 #2270 05:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    too late
  • @hodlencoinfield #2271 05:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    exactly
  • @6370143984 #2272 05:35 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    @mikeinspace bingo.
  • @6370143984 #2273 05:35 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this is why hard forks typically have activation dates well in the future
  • @6370143984 #2274 05:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    even overtly hostile hardforks like BCH
  • @XJA77 #2275 05:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think he should change the prefix i hope he reconsider it and remove at least the replay vector
  • @hodlencoinfield #2276 05:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    tbh i dont think it really matters, just need to stop using xchain and move on
  • @reinamora_137 #2277 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah could overthink it for days i'm sure
  • @hodlencoinfield #2278 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    it is a fun thought experiment lol
  • @reinamora_137 #2279 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    haha yeah trippy for sure
  • @6370143984 #2280 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    haven't thought about the replay stuff since 2017!
  • @reinamora_137 #2281 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    lol a time machine
  • @reinamora_137 #2282 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    welcome back!
  • @hodlencoinfield #2283 05:37 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    it honestly amazing its taken 10 years for a fork considering how they’re technically very simple
  • @reinamora_137 #2284 05:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think i'm already forked with my wackly hashes anyway haha
  • @hodlencoinfield #2285 05:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    thats a spoon i think
  • @reinamora_137 #2286 05:38 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    ah yeah more like haha
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2283 #2287 05:39 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    reasonably small community, lots of goodwill, etc. go a long way!
  • @hodlencoinfield #2288 05:40 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    will be great content for the book and the limited tv series
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2288 #2289 05:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this was not science? now is history?
  • @XJA77 #2290 05:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think im in the wrong classroom
  • @XJA77 #2291 05:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    🤣
  • @XJA77 #2293 05:42 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    jajajajaja
  • @reinamora_137 #2294 05:43 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Truth. I believe arwyn already started the movie
  • @droplister #2295 05:45 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Joined.
  • @XJA77 #2296 05:46 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    welcome Dan
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2205 #2297 05:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    More I think about it the more correct this sounds. IOW all txs are replayed except for (some) numeric issuances. But this makes it even uglier in a way? it's a hard fork that superficially looks a lot like a soft fork...

    @teysol really curious to hear your thoughts here!
  • @6370143984 #2298 05:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    @XJA77 @reinamora_137 if you do an XCP send on 9.61 is that reflected on 9.62?
  • @hodlencoinfield #2299 05:48 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    of course
  • @hodlencoinfield #2300 05:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    assuming the balances are the same
  • @6370143984 #2301 05:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    even if they're not the same, as long as quantity sent < quantity held tx will go through, no?
  • @hodlencoinfield #2302 05:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yep
  • @XJA77 #2303 05:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @droplister #2304 05:49 AM, 09 Jan 2024
  • @droplister #2306 05:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I have github.com/xcp and xcp.io if they could be of use
    XCP

    Trade Cryptoassets Peer-to-Peer. XCP has one repository available. Follow their code on GitHub.

  • @6370143984 #2307 05:51 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    yeah then it's replays all the way down... except for numeric asset issuances... pretty gross. but good call @herpenstein

    changing the prefix would at least allow the two chains to function independently.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2309 05:53 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    a technical debt jubilee, i like the sound of that
  • @XJA77 #2310 05:55 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i like it too
  • @droplister #2311 05:56 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Adam K has two good insights on GitHub. The main one being if there were a good explorer API off the fednode. xcp.dev has a lot of useful code.

    This all looks really manageable, especially if there are diff people with the repo now.

    I would expect the fork to drift off into the mist. Let that fork deal with the issues of replay or invalidness.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2311 #2312 05:58 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    this is the idea actually being able to put inside the fednode
  • @hodlencoinfield #2313 05:58 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    there is no one asking for that fork either
  • @hodlencoinfield #2314 05:58 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    its a fork for no one
  • @droplister #2315 05:58 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    But if it does get really crazy town. You snapshot at some reasonable spot and start from that. If you look at how burns work in counterparty. It’s a CSV import without validation. So it would be sort of like that. But you’d bootstrap balances for non-XCP assets too and have layers of signing and validation over the starting point to avoid funny biz.
  • Jdog party of one
  • @droplister #2317 05:59 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    You guys got this. Now, I return to fud.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2318 05:59 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i always wonder if there was an error in the burns csv, but im afraid to check
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2318 #2319 06:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    sorry, i am not aware of this part
  • @XJA77 #2320 06:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    there is a bootstrap of burns from what?
  • @hodlencoinfield #2321 06:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    counterparty-lib/counterpartylib/mainnet_burns.csv at master · CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-lib

    Counterparty Protocol Reference Implementation. Contribute to CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-lib development by creating an account on GitHub.

  • @hodlencoinfield #2322 06:00 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    would be easy enough to check the tx_hash's
  • @6370143984 ↶ Reply to #2321 #2323 06:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    quite the trip down memory lane
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2321 #2324 06:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    mmmmhm
  • @hodlencoinfield #2325 06:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    im not checking
  • @hodlencoinfield #2326 06:01 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    lol
  • @XJA77 #2327 06:02 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i will do a script to check this when i have some spare time
  • @XJA77 #2328 06:02 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    should be easy
  • @XJA77 #2329 06:07 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    actually chatgpt will do it for me
  • @XJA77 #2330 06:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    script running before go to sleep jeje
  • @XJA77 #2331 06:25 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i didnt know it was not verified i thought that maybe on a bootstraped one could be not verified but in a full parse it was been verified
  • @XJA77 #2332 06:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    i remmeber see that when runing the node in the first part of the sync but i didnt look how the code was doing that
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1716 #2333 07:54 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Treating the symptom, not the cause.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1726 #2334 08:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    There are no miners in Counterparty to receive the fee. The xcp fee is the equivalent a burn for now.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1742 #2335 08:33 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Like the protocol stack needs reorganizing instead. Maybe the fednode install process should be more customizable per operator? Choose your own adventure? Press 1 to include numbered, press forkoff to sit and pout.
  • @droplister #2336 08:39 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    You can’t do stuff like that because all the assets can be traded for one another, so you need to care about all of them to have accurate balances.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1848 #2337 09:03 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I took ‘Stamps is a protocol’ and ‘Stamp: required in the description’ to mean something similar to ftp: http: ssl: protocol implementation, not that I was signing up for a collection on jdogs explorer; when I made a named stamp with multiple quantities. My take on stamping before the rules were sealed, was that stamp: was necessary to facilitate the storage and decoding of the base64.

    The appeal to stamps is that stamps claims to solve the immutability issue, but counterparty did that already, not stamps. The tx just had to be correct. Then came the realization of BTNS via broadcast. Src-20 and 721 and BTNS are all similar spinoffs and have something positive to add to the protocol if we could bring it all together.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1848 #2338 09:06 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I only have one, as a proof of concept. I’m not a bag chaser. Immutable art and education were my motivations behind my named stamp.
  • @jp_janssen #2339 10:13 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I just withdrew CIP29 which justified xcp fees on numerics.

    I wrote that CIP long ago and I think it is outdated.

    Whoever still wants this fee, please write a new updated CIP to replace CIP29.

    https://forums.counterparty.io/t/fee-on-numeric-assets/6601/6
    Fee on Numeric Assets

    I suggest adding a 0.01 XCP fee on every issuance (initial and subsequents issuances alike). Also, invalid issuances should be ignored and no longer be stored in the DB. I am against the planned 0.25 XCP fee on numeric assets. Why fee on every issuance From my understanding, the problem lies with the issuances table. Many use cases, like data storage, should move to broadcasts. To encourage this, a fee must be applied to every issuance, not just the first one. Otherwise you can issue an asset...

  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1874 #2340 10:27 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Take the issue apart. The protocol is made of components. The wallets form the transaction, the miners process if valid, fednode sees tx, api transforms fednode data for consumption, explorers are presentation layer. The protocol should not change to implement features for an explorer that can be accomplished with CSS or filtering. Wallets will still create tx’s as they did no matter who forks what.

    Can we work towards a universal prefix that replaces ‘stamp:’ moving forward but still facilitates the storage of base64 and treat them as a normal asset if named? Stamps can still exist but this would help clear the language issues, let stamps stand alone and open up the discussion for further advancement of these new implementations.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1900 #2341 10:36 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Dont quote me, I’ll look into it later but I’m pretty sure most of those domains all are hosted on the same plan/server anyway.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1905 #2342 10:46 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Freewallet is not official protocol wallet. Counterwallet has been pushed to the side and possibly being phased out if memory serves. Counterwallet is what was needed to make a stamp in the beginning, because freewallet had a limitation to description size. The user facing stamp services are basically web wallets that can create a special counterparty compliant tx that freewallet can not create. More counterparty wallet integration and implementation will be needed.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1913 #2343 10:47 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    Things got weird after Miami.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #1976 #2344 10:55 AM, 09 Jan 2024
    I remember that fun time. Completely stalled my project. That was a bigger issue I thought. Thoughts?
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2071 #2345 02:16 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    This is important. This closes the market between asset types making each less valuable and having fewer features.
  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #2340 #2346 02:19 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    The standard already exists, data urls

    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Basics_of_HTTP/Data_URLs

    Easy to detect and support for explorers:

    https://bitst.art/147e416c5bc929c202058c187fdc6fec74121c96666d86c1b3c815e988bd49bb
    Data URLs - HTTP | MDN

    Data URLs, URLs prefixed with the data: scheme, allow content creators to embed small files inline in documents. They were formerly known as "data URIs" until that name was retired by the WHATWG.

  • @uanbtc ↶ Reply to #2344 #2347 02:21 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Tell me. bitSTART was just launched. And broken a few days later.

    Made me pivot and disregard asset quantities entirely. Only focus on the art. Eventually for the best, as ordinals made more sense to add with this approach
  • @ABlue0ne #2348 02:29 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    I’m still catching up from Jdog taking off his socks.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2084 #2349 02:33 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    No fud.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2124 #2350 02:38 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    No offense but we started this chat for a reason…
  • @yodark #2351 02:55 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Joined.
  • @XJA77 #2352 02:55 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    welcome shaban
  • @yodark #2353 02:56 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Thanks
  • @yodark #2354 02:59 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    I think a need an AI bot to sumarize me all the discussion and dramas
  • @XJA77 #2355 03:00 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    we are working on continue deving the xcp.dev explorer and apis as is opensource as a replacement for xchain and his apis, also here yesterday were discussed some posible vector attacks, some of them could be potentially addressed with education for the comunity and with a clear difference between forks but some needs cooperation from minoritary fork to change prefix so we can protect against replay attacks
  • @B0BSmith #2356 03:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    TLDR - xcp balances are out of sync and it now depends which version you ask as to what your xcp balance is. There are assets that exist in 9.6.1 that are invalid on 9.6.2
  • @B0BSmith #2357 03:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    9.6.2 has less xcp available
  • @yodark #2358 03:02 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    so xcp.dev is staying on 6.1
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2358 #2359 03:02 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @yodark #2360 03:02 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    so we have effectively a fork
  • @XJA77 #2361 03:02 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2146 #2362 03:03 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    That would be awesome and terrible at the same time. I recommended parliamentary procedure a few time to deaf ears. These dev conversations need structure and discipline sans emotion, hence this ALT dev channel.
  • @yodark #2363 03:04 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    So right now if I'm correct xchain, freewallet (counterwallet ?) are on 6.2 and as a matter of fact Casa Tookan, OrbExplorer are on 6.2
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2149 #2364 03:04 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    The fork/dev group that best cares for users will win.
  • @yodark #2365 03:06 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    but in practical term (ouside the idea of buidling a community) what are the current implication on the existing counterparty stack ?
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2363 #2366 03:06 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    xchain yes is in 62, freewallet kind of, reads from 62 but tx are created using api.counterparty.io whhich is in 61, counterwallet stils in 61 but is broken atm with the last update
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2365 #2368 03:08 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    difference is xcp fee on numerics, so in 62 all numerics issued that the issuer address had xcp in his wallet are valid in counterparty protocol but not visible in xchain and freewallet as he has muted them, as consecuency of this issuer address in 62 have deducted the xcp and in 61 no
  • @XJA77 #2369 03:08 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    also many assets that exists in 61 doesnt exist on 62 if the issuer addres didnt had xcp in his wallet at the issue time
  • @B0BSmith ↶ Reply to #2354 #2370 03:13 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    an attack vector exists in that an asset that does not exist on 62 could be traded on the dex on 61
  • @XJA77 #2371 03:14 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    but you are in 62 with your nodes or as you have depencencies on xchain ser?
  • @XJA77 #2372 03:14 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    @yodark
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2371 #2373 03:17 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    if is the last we are preparing replacements for the xchain apis, you can check it here, we assigned a priority there for each one so feel free to add priority to the ones you consider
    https://cryptpad.fr/sheet/#/2/sheet/edit/F2VaSWqt7t28TLArMTFdZuSD/embed/
    Encrypted Sheet

    CryptPad: end-to-end encrypted collaboration suite

  • @B0BSmith ↶ Reply to #2363 #2374 03:18 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Counterwallet was broken by recent updates (dispenser close delays)
  • @yodark #2375 03:20 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    We are connecting the counterparty node that is managed by JDOG
  • @yodark #2376 03:20 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    we also have node that is managed by jdog
  • @hodlencoinfield #2377 03:20 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    You should talk to jdog but afaik the only node running the fork is xchain itself
  • @XJA77 #2378 03:20 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    maybe is better if you ask him if he updated that nodes
  • @yodark #2379 03:21 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    yep thanks
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2181 #2380 03:22 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Too soon. Let it play out first.
  • @Pegasus0527 #2381 03:22 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Left.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2224 #2382 03:31 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Maybe 6.3 needs to be a reversion?
  • @XJA77 #2383 03:33 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    what you mean with a reversion?
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2276 #2384 03:38 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    And freewallet
  • @hodlencoinfield #2385 03:51 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    true, at least until the calls can be recreated and settings updated
  • @shannoncode #2387 03:56 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Joined.
  • @droplister #2388 03:57 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    It would affect those collections if someone trades a numeric for a card in those collections, especially if that numeric is issued after the fork.
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2388 #2389 03:57 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes this is what i think
  • @droplister #2390 03:57 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Which is rare probably but a thing
  • @XJA77 #2391 03:57 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    if they relay in xchain especially
  • @B0BSmith ↶ Reply to #2386 #2392 03:58 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    fakerare has a stamp in the collection
  • @al_fernandz #2393 03:59 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    dank rares some others also
  • Any idea which one?
  • @reganhimself #2395 03:59 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    wokja too
  • @reganhimself #2396 04:00 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    A8008135800813580085
  • @reganhimself #2397 04:00 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    its mine (and alth0tas)
  • @XJA77 #2398 04:00 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Do you relay in xchain apis?
  • @reganhimself #2399 04:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    i have some dank stamps too
  • @hodlencoinfield #2400 04:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think its probly best to stop vaulting ALL counterparty assets for now
  • @hodlencoinfield #2401 04:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    as dan pointed out this is a risk something trades for a numeric created post fork
  • @reganhimself #2402 04:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    i think there has been a number of stamps subbed to kaleidoscope too
  • @hodlencoinfield #2403 04:01 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    and creates phantom assets
  • @herpenstein #2404 04:02 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    What a mess
  • Are you using xchain api calls for your queries? If so which ones? @uanbtc project xcp.dev is working on a direct replacement for the endpoints
  • @herpenstein #2406 04:03 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Trying to identify the most critical calls to mitigate all this fun
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2373 #2407 04:04 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Yes there is a priority list here so we can work on that one's first
  • @herpenstein #2408 04:04 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    @shannoncode feel free to edit it and add notes for what you need
  • https://xchain.io/api/balances/

    https://xchain.io/api/asset/
  • @herpenstein #2410 04:05 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Perfect
  • @droplister #2411 04:05 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Reminder that subassets are numeric assets lol
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2409 #2412 04:05 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    this are priority 10 actually and working on them atm
  • I think these are some of the highest priority ones
  • @XJA77 ↶ Reply to #2411 #2414 04:06 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    yes but this ones has not problems i think
  • @hodlencoinfield #2415 04:17 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    i feel like we’re ground control and counterparty is Apollo 13
  • @hodlencoinfield #2416 04:17 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    maybe thats a bad analogy
  • @hodlencoinfield #2417 04:17 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    lol
  • @XJA77 #2418 04:19 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Huston we have a problem
  • @shannoncode #2419 04:20 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Lol
  • @krostue ↶ Reply to #2418 #2420 04:21 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    he knows. he sent jeremy an email

    jkjk
  • those have been blessed with a 0.25 XCP offering
  • @ABlue0ne #2422 04:41 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    Wow. I took a night off and 😳
  • @ABlue0ne #2423 04:42 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    All caught up now. Wish I was not.
  • @hodlencoinfield #2424 04:43 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    glass is half full AB
  • @ABlue0ne #2425 04:43 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    @uanbtc as a charter member of this channel, I make a motion that we switch this chat to invite only for a bit.
  • @ABlue0ne ↶ Reply to #2424 #2426 04:44 PM, 09 Jan 2024
    No fud here