You're a pretty knowledgeable guy, Mike.

I'm not afraid to ask "dumb" questions. I think a lot of people shy away from that to avoid looking stupid.

Bruv it didn’t go down. Stop asking questions peasant! 🤣

It’s the proof that the people, some people in here are ridiculing, are correct.

Stop changing the topic

I just need 10 minutes with a CSS editor and I'll make it look like xchain

9 months 10 minutes later…

Call it a blank slate from satoshi for the gmoneys in here.

Topic change

I know people are mostly trolling but there's an open PR for UI improvements: https://github.com/CNTRPRTY/xcpdev/pull/14

Oh nice, that's by Stampverse.io team. I'm sure they'll do a bang-up job.

cool, didn't know that. it's nice to see group work, incremental improvements, etc.

Jdog has been at the helm of Xchain for six years, advocating for the introduction of fees on numeric assets to maintain the platform's stability and prevent potential fund losses due to lag issues.

The Counterparty community, which has been around for a decade, is facing a challenge. Historically, issuing an asset on this Bitcoin-based protocol required a 0.5 XCP fee. However, the issuance of 'A' assets became free, although they weren't popular among long-term supporters because of their unattractive, hard-to-read format.

Recently, a new group entered the scene and utilized these free numeric assets extensively. In just nine months, they have created as many assets as the original community did in ten years. This surge in free asset creation has strained the main block explorer, causing tools used by the loyalists to fail, while the newcomers' tool remains operational without incurring fees.

This situation has led to frustration among the long-standing supporters of XCP, who feel that their commitment to the protocol and its values has been undermined by the new group's actions.

This is what ChatGPT says:

Deciding whether to add a fee for asset creation on a platform like Counterparty involves considering several factors:

1. Sustainability: Fees can provide a revenue stream to support the maintenance and development of the platform. If the current model is unsustainable, introducing fees might be necessary.

2. Network Health: The influx of new assets without fees might strain the system, as seen with the degradation of the main block explorer. Fees can regulate the number of assets created and maintain network health.

3. Community Sentiment: The opinion of the long-standing community members should be considered. If they feel that the lack of fees is devaluing their investment or undermining the protocol, this could be a strong argument for introducing fees.

4. Inclusivity vs. Quality Control: Keeping asset creation free promotes inclusivity, allowing anyone to participate without financial barriers. However, fees can act as a quality control mechanism to prevent spam or frivolous asset creation.

5. Market Competitiveness: If fees make the platform less competitive compared to others, it might deter new users. Conversely, if the platform offers unique value, a fee might be acceptable to users.

Ultimately, the decision should balance the platform's sustainability, community sentiment, and the goal of maintaining a healthy, inclusive, and competitive environment.

I asked if most longterm holders wanted the fees, what would you do:

Given that most long-term holders favor introducing fees, I would lean towards implementing a fee structure. It seems that the community values sustainability and quality control over the inclusivity of free asset creation. This approach would help maintain the platform's health, deter frivolous or spammy asset creation, and potentially provide a revenue stream for further development and maintenance. Balancing the needs of long-term supporters with the platform's overall health and competitiveness is crucial. So, if most long-term holders want the fees, what would you do? Implementing a carefully considered fee structure that aligns with the community's desires while ensuring the platform's sustainability seems to be a prudent course of action.

Can someone summarize this

Have to learn to read first

How to cover costs of maintaining stuff ?

can we try proof of stake?

ChatGPT wrote this….not me

But to me, you buy XCP, hold it and benefit from the growth.

XCP is the same price as it was 10 years ago. Seems fair.

How does that cover server/ db / engineering costs ?

They will make netflix documentaries about this chat one day 🍿😂 wen FW back on I want to see ma memes

Oh god... please let us not go through this for the 100th time...

Sorry

hahaha no worries

We're not going to convince anyone at the end of the day

I own the rights to the content in this chat , btw

I think they need to build stuff people want to use and profit

Solid model

But there is open source stuff as well … and costs that are protocol specific (burdened ) - right

Guys why is my free wallet down???

freewallet will be back probably next week. your assets are safe though

Ok thank you cam for that info! Been trying to get info last 2 days! Thanks

It was interesting listening to the BTNS spaces, as Jdog was echoing many of the Stamps talking points and specifically mentioned that xcp hinders adoption and he would be reluctant to make it a requirement of BTNS. In fact, BTNS doesn't appear like it will even exist on Counterparty "rails". A better funding solution, particularly given that Jdog will control it end-to-end, would be a BTC donation on every BTNS txn. This could be built right into the protocol or maybe just the tooling. Would solve the funding issue and wouldn't require a foundation to manage the funding aspect which can always get messy.

It is cool that BTNS will be chain-agnostic. Still trying to figure out how that would work exactly. A 2 way peg?

yea im excited for that aspect

idk how it will be accomplished though

I guess if he's running nodes for all 3 chains its just a matter of capturing and tabulating OP_RETURN messages into a single index

As long as they are aware of each other, it would work like escrow?

Well the 3 chains won't be aware of each other, but the indexer would keep track I guess

Yea that’s what I mean

Be cool to send Pepe’s to Dogeparty for cheap trading and pop them back over here for security.

That's sort of what I was discussing with Joe except it was Liquid. Basically Counterparty would need to monitor 2 chains and that's not going to happen without rearchitecting the entire protocol and having consensus to do that.

J-dog come back......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjBs4pKwzhU

he resign cip custodian yesterday.. end drama circle good for him ..... good for cp long term ...sun rises

vacuum open to someone would like to weighs the cp dev job for free 😂 byebye counterparty

This is a weird way to operate the way it just shut down I mean,maybe not Quadriga style weird but getting there

Your balance is there onchain. Just not viewing atm on xchain

You gonna tell the judge it was the cyber man with the horse head... can I buy tickets to the deposition?

we all knew there was a possibility before shutdown happened ..but people keep attacking him...this is part of permission-less ,He doesn't owe anyone anything .though someone blame all this to him

All your bitcoin are belong to us!

I tried to tell him. He didn’t want to hear. Remember my name.

Not exactly the whole picture.

I take this one back G, if, you meant in regards to how long we have already been waiting and see a stamps indexer.

I read it as fud first go round g. We agree more than you think. Big picture if you’re on the right side.

@teysol Periwig you got name-dropped in this new Huobi tweet.

https://x.com/HuobiGlobal/status/1745656270647116134?s=20

Fake and Ghey

Where is Javier? Is he a counterparty dev or subcontractor for xchain? Is he in the chats?

Hey Space Mike, what happened to drooling apes? That party over?

So the last Series only has 48 cards. All the previous Series had 69. Not sure why it ended so abruptly, tbh. Around 4-5 months ago I tried to get some top artists to finish off the Series 6 and there was some enthusiasm but didn't go anywhere. The idea was to do a 12 card panorama of the Last Supper but with apes and each panel drawn by a different artist. Though so much time has past maybe we should just leave it as it is: a time-capsule of an era. I'm pretty proud of that series (mostly acting as one of the curators) and the art is top notch. We even rented a party bus one year at one of the conferences. 10 years from now people will look back and regard many as grails.

This is the only time I've had anything to say in the last three days but IT'S NOT OVER!!!!

by the way, the current "final" card was my idea. I got Tizar to bring it to life: https://droolingapebus.club/ape/SEANCONNERY

We had fun with named assets: THERAPISTAPE

shiiiiit.... I guess hotlinking xchain was a bad idea: https://droolingapebus.club/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fxchain.io%2Fimg%2Fcards%2FTHERAPISTAPE.jpg&w=1920&q=75

okay that's better...

Named stamp fren

I forgot about this. Aryan built dispenser tech right into the website. Pretty neat: https://droolingapebus.club/ape/DERPYMONA

Needs audio

I'd love to but the link is down

Dm

I think I have a jong and Putin ape. How much those worth?

Normally, I would say check the last sale on xchain... idk... don't really follow the Drooling Apes market that closely anymore

I’ll sale them to you for a low low price of half a bitcoin.

https://dankset.io/assets/JONGDERP

Yeah that's not how it works. If I was actually interested in acquiring them (I might already have them idk.. I have a lot of those cards) I would probably seek out the market value rather than blindly sending you 0.5 BTC lol

Thanks for the link. I can confirm I have that card

Says none for sale. This is a hard one to get boyz.

This

Here's what you should do: create a bundle and offer it at auction on Scarce City. That creates a lot more hoopla than just opening a dispenser. And if you set no reserve you have real price discovery

Dude I was jk. I know how it works. I sold quite a bit on scarce city in the past.

Space Mike are you Canadian?

yeah

That explains a lot. I had a hunch.

I have a brother in law that’s Canadian and you all just think differently. I love him but he’s a trip.

Don't forget to tell them while supplies last

Colin seems kind of tarded

Are you a Trudeau fan?

Yeah... he's probably just confused

No one ever told him the blockchain is closed... come back tomorrow

He's probably never heard of an artist afraid to sell you his work because he knows you can't see it

So... yeah... me and him are both pretty tarded

Thanks for noticing

AKA Fidel Castro’s son

Justin Castro

Fraid not

I'm in rough shape as well... certainly not to the same degree but the smarts are smarting and I think things will be back up and running for us soon... thats the hope

A silver lining is we may even have some options that we didn't have before.

I hope that helps man

Smart guy did this https://www.xcp.dev/address/1GgBnxdiUwD3fKfdedAwvnuD2zfo3w5kWS

Make your own qr

Or wait for a quick site refresh. Its been up as a tool for a long time but never stopped functioning. Pretty mode is next for those who need.

Only gamble what you can afford to lose. It was created by a friend I trust, a few years ago, for us to get a better look without relying on xchain, but dont trust me, were just using it as it was intended and it works fine. Hasn’t missed a beat.

xchain.io being down, do we know whether another API host is being developed for Freewallet?

Everything will play out as it should

All counterparty wallets can work with any valid counterparty api.

See if it works

No I don't think so

Just keep your keys to yourself and you good

I've switched between multiple hosts never had an issue

You're welcome

Thank you 🙏 Numeric assets don't show though

When it stops working switch to a working host

Yeah sorry , I'd check xcp.ninja for numeric sir

Not sure sir

I generally just switch between 1-6 on browser see which is most up to date ...

FWIW

https://x.com/jdogresorg/status/1745433283369038133?s=20

As far as I know yeah

Was a good one

Anyone selling a rarepepe? My offer is 1.5 btc

Check emblem vault curated on OS

Listened to the entire AMA recording, useful information minus a little bit of bickering. Lots of takeaways and the renewed interest in CP is encouraging.

What's the incentive to hold on to xcp. It's the primary token of a wonderful layer 2 bitcoin protocol but it's crippled. It's value has bottomed with no recovery in sight

If I attended the AMA I would have asked this.

Stamps or Rarepepes or any other project on CounterParty have all gained immensely but the primary token itself remains largely useless other than burning named takens. Every other xcp utility can be circumvented. Is this even a concern to the community?

No

Hi everyone, does someone know what the state of the xchain project is? will it be coming back? should I looks for alternatives to the API?

It's a good question what to do, if you make a burn it's good to have some type of generating event, it's I guess a difficult can of worms to open

I mean that, the network use is often using btc for stuff and I think there isn't a way around it. About bringing more xcp (generating or burn)why?

It was mentioned stamps is clogging jdogs shit and there is no mechanism to limit it, then added the fees and some ppl got mad and some stuff broke. Anyway, it's at least good some stuff is happening i suppose.

For me bring a rarepepe holder, I am just using xcp to store some assets, and in the past I used mandelducks website to store assets on a ledger nano. I am not up to know what stamps is or does, wish it was as cheap as the old dogyparty stuff

Many of community not concerned about value of xcp and believe that to be something the market decides.

If you read the above it is not my ability to transact business... It's what would a collector be getting?

On xchain, there was a jpeg an mp4 and an entire album inside the token.

Very few people want to crawl through metadata

And xcp not L2, lives inside the BTC ledger, and uses mempool for all tx, dex etc. And no smart contracts either hence you can't stake it unless you swap it out for some L2 token not on BTC

heard u dev people sorted stuff out?

UAPF (user activated pepe fork) campaign will have to be put on ice..🐸☠️😂

See dm for support

That's a bit self inflicting. A token with value will attract all kinds of people including devs. Without adequate value will lead to one dedicated dev holding the fort by himself for 7 years with no support.

Unfortunately, I still have a large amount of assets in XCP, will XCP not be killed?

Yes. Never be killed

My fake and ghey protocol is #4 on the list of: “Top 9 Bitcoin DeFi projects to watch in 2024”

https://www.okx.com/learn/top-bitcoin-defi-projects

Imagine looking this gift horse in the mouth. Oh well…

rugged

Awesome, great write up and links in there

Can you put anything inside the 24x24 pixels? Like more pixels?

Oh the write up is complete nonsense, they probably got ChatGPT to write it

Stamps aren’t constrained by pixels. That was early guidance only not really a rule or limit

https://crypt0biwan.github.io/counterparty-explorer/

https://twitter.com/crypt0biwan/status/1745831132531220826?t=rMhbtApnAP9YyXkqBqXuWA&s=19

jeezus christ... STOP TRYING TO FUCKING HACK Freewallet into working... I am working on fixing shit... but gotta come here to tell pppl to just fucking stop for a minute!!!!! putting in different hostnames to point directly to individual servers in my infastrcuture is only going to cause MORE headaches... I took xchain.io down, and have NOT brought it back up for a reason... it say 9.62.0, has no numerics, is on wrong fork, etc... so MAYBE let me fix it... or at least, point to different stufff... dont' keep trying to use my shit, while I have said dont and I am working on it.... or I will be forced to take all the servers TRULY down... as in physically off... because you guys cant just chill for a bit longer!

I realize everyone is upset and freaking... but chill out... let the adults work... your making things worse... xchain prolly back up by now.... but having to STOP work.. to once again put out fires

last warning... XCHAIN AND FREEWALLET ARE DOWN... wait till I bring them back up

Thank you for posting this for me Chief... thought it would calm ppl n prevent me from having to waste time interacting... guess not so far

Can someone just pin this? Or some sort of eli5?

Which CounterParty room was the op from?

Also... worth pointing out... EVERYONE is pretty chill and moving forward... and here @krostue is once again causing drama and putting clown shit on everything I say... just trying to taunt me... its childish and one of the toxic things and people I really had problems with in this space... so duncan.,.. your free to keep doing 2-faced shit... talk about decentralization in your room that you kick ppl out of, including me... while screaming I am the dictator.... over the drama... but want the community to see... EVERYONE is focused on moving forward... and here your dipshit ass is still just trying to settle old scores.... I see it, many here see it now clearly for what it is... but want to make sure i highlight it and point out, I see you, others see you... your just interested in your personal vendetta... your NOT here for the community, NOT a good leader, did FUCKALL on the counterparty foundation, and caused a ton of headaches for me, until I learned to ignore you... Done talking shit, but yeah.... truth needs to be told... now back to ACTUAL work and ACTUALLY improving things... enjoy your view from the sidelines you useless fuck 🤷️️

You aske for it bro... not waving gun at anyone else.. but for sure firing a bullet at your reputation dumbass

Have a good relaxed weekend in Vegas @jdogresorg, stressfree I hope

Just calling out the sock.

Nice bouquet of psychological projection. Since this is your room for your project, I'll refrain from interacting with the charade

You were noxious to me too @krostue in "XCP shillings and giveaway group" for answering a simple question someone else asked related to Dogeparty (just because Dogeparty was rebooted by Jdog).It's time people call you out on this kind of behavior where you keep attacking without any rhyme or reason

i think those guys should have contributed to the tech before going all in and make the whole thing unuseable... come on. you dont go to grandma's house, break her old armchair and then blame her.

its so simple to understand.. create a sort a level2.. some tx pooling system.. i dunno.. xcp assets were an oasis for creators for its easy and fun approach.

Admins... please do not remove this poll... gimme a few minutes to bring things back up n all will be clear... a few more minutes of patience please 👍️️️️️️

J Dog is 100% correct everyone needs to chill and let him do his thing so we can get back to business. Go J Dog.

i dont think its about fee tho.. with stamps they overspend all the time.. there should be an improvement of the tech brought by who introduced them.. and we all saw last few days without numeric xchain was working at light speed.

If at first you don’t succeed.. 🤷

This is all so petty

I’m voting no now even though I think yes

I just want us all to be friends, or at least crack on..

All these messages in dev hours.. imagine

Imagine the cost if nothing else

I’m sorry I’m having my turn to be upset

look the guy has always been supportive.. everytime a new drop of xcp comes out he buys it of his pocket.. he's not a dictator.. there is a long legacy in xcp that should have priority over any misuse of the infrastructure..

🤷

one more block... gotta make sure the BROS dispensers that rewards ppl for donating to the XChain "bring back numerics" fee get something nice

there are millionaires involved but also people that could pay hospital fees selling a card. all this stamp shitshow can be fun but its disrespectful to culture.

Put it on the time chain.

can those geniuses come out with a real innovation creating value to the ecosystem?.. i was really hoping for that to be honest.

Wrong topic, approach and sliding the issues.

I'm thinking that xcp as an anti-squat mechanism makes a lot more sense than an anti-spam mechanism as the transaction itself already has a cost in Bitcoin paid to miners. But when viewed as an anti-squat mechanism it makes much more sense as its applied to named assets (a limited namespace) and applied lesser to sub-assets. The fact that numerics have an almost unlimited address space and don't provide anything squattable, seems to indicate why they don't have an xcp burn requirement. I definitely want to go back to the Counterparty documentation to really understand what the intention actually was.

So you reboot your service after taking it down, to rally users towards your side, while other services (bitst.art) are still running and have been running the whole time.

create a tx pooling system, a true L2..Mike.. i think you are genius, contribute to an old machine to revamp it.

Read the counterparty dev docs. Learn the counterparty protocol.

https://i.gyazo.com/2d8ed04611344a778de6530576a155b7.png

I'm no genius, but I am good at reconceptualizing things. Might be part of my marketing background.

https://xchain.io/numeric-consensus

https://i.gyazo.com/93b076bdd51fb21a2ccca44e53f44457.png

https://fakerarewallet.com/html/xcp-fee/

https://i.gyazo.com/7f2e833c3988b18797692d3afd408e0e.png

The communities now have 3 EASY ways to vote... in 3 different categories.... GO VOTE! Make your voice heard

It's up! Thank you !

in this case its more capitulating than recapitulating.. ehehheh.. :) work with beny on another indexing system.. benefit the legacy ..

I've done what I felt I needed to do, so I can relax in Vegas... tough to relax when ppl are in pain... I shall now disappear for a while

None

thnx OG

other services haven't been up and supporting over 90% of the projects bro... done fighting... move no... do fair comparisons... if ppl didn't use my shit, there would be NO PROBLEM... its back up, if numerics ppl want their stuff displayed, they have a way... and now core devs have an easy way to just sit back and hopefully LISTEN to the results of the polls and community... or dont.. either way, i've done EVERYTHING in my power, short of doing more crazy shit, to highlight this issue, bring attention to it, restore services ASAP, and now provide a way for ppl to vote with 1-2 clicks

my work is done for now

actually they do, check the site under counterparty devs vote

https://www.Bitst.art/GOODDOG never went down.

awesome... too bad no one uses it or xcp.dev.... they are great starts... but anyone can keep a site up when no one uses it.... facts

It proves me and the other devs are right.

Also not a numbered asset and my data remained up to entire world without coindaddy json.

xcp.dev spotted in the wild

Just added an update so it shows the live information from xcp.dev below the asset, so you can see the dispenser balance 👍👀🐸

https://www.vivalavandal.biz/

Solutions.

this is a vote from a third party and not an official protocol request for vote, correct?

I'm still trying to parse this. Is the intention to apply an xcp fee on numerics AND do a fund raise to bring their visibility back? Isn't that sort of an admission that the xcp fee won't really function as an "anti-spam" mechanism?

I gotta say, j-dog pushed me into the camp of removal of all fees for ANY asset class, and that was a hard push to have made

I think they do make sense for named assets as there is a limited namespace of english-language common words. Numerics is like an infinite address space of nothing. You can't squat those.

and people have had a decade to accumulate those. I would presume having a run on named assets would create a robust marketplace for people that have squatted by paying a fee as well as create an incentive for others to come in and utilize the service to collect others to participate in that market

Some of these issues may be able to be fixed at node install.

Hint hint

My opinions have really changed the last few days and through the recent events, I truly feel we have gatekept a walled garden for far too long and that why few come to smell our roses

Bounty for a product and a vote for a protocol; both hosted on a product, ran by the product owner.

As GHomie says, ‘Vote harder’

https://t.me/bullionbitcoinbs/34296

If the xcp requirement is "successful" it should dramatically reduce the amount of numerics, right? That's the point?

If that's the end result then there should be no more strain on the infrastructure.

However, if numerics are not slowed, then it proves that the xcp burn was ineffective as an anti-spam mechanism

Respectfully, If, with quotes on ‘successful’ and including should, is all I need to know.

Its simply the wrong topic, in regards to the counterparty protocol.

Narrator… “the XCP burn was ineffective and they were just trying to add friction to make Stamps less popular and more difficult to use than Ordinals”

Simp

the fee is trivial, what i see is an attempt to lay out a consensus mechanism

the last few days have shown me counterparty consensus is greater than 50% of the 3 core devs. that's all i ever wanted to know. i could care less about XCP now

Xchain is on!

Consensus already exists: stasis. That's how blockchains work. You can try and form a new consensus, but its not true to say there currently isn't consensus.

well yes you're right. i guess what i mean to say is a heard a lot of "what does the community want?" from the devs and no communication of how they gauging it. im fine with whichever direction counterparty goes.

You heard it from 1 former dev. I don't think I've heard that call from anyone else.

true, the dev structure has changed

then we're good i guess. im just riding on this boat as a passenger

I know people think its "cute" to vote like this is a democracy, but as Jdog proved, its not a democracy. You have those who run the infrastructure and they decide what they want to run and a consensus forms between those players. The xcp I hold in my wallet as a "community member" means almost nothing. I can't "vote" to dictate the code others write or what they decide to host.

yes very true. my frustration the last days has been my misunderstanding

it's more than that. a "consensus protocol", like in a blockchain (!), is a way for everyone who agrees 100% on the exact same rules for the protocol to *also* agree on other stuff (like token balances)

getting "social consensus" on _what that protocol should be_ is not the same kind of thing. it can't be decentralized. there has to be perfect agreement. the *blockchain* itself is what's decentralized and democratic

well I don't think the 3 voting mechanisms on xchain help... how do you even tabulate that?

Well ya u have 5 🤣

idk, that's up to the devs to decided if they even want to looks at it lol

Panic

I host a few of the green banner projects so apparently I'm getting multiple votes

#metoo

Vote no at your own peril 🤣

If Xchain didn’t go down, would your opinions have changed?

Picking a block height 30 days in the future for a potential forking and telling the community and then within 24 hours pushing it live removed my trust in the maintainer. I personally feel more comfortable with less emotional responses from those with almost ultimate power. In a basic statement, the recent actions have me only willing to vote no confidence, regardless of the storied history of the person.

What happened inbetween point A and point B, 10k numeric pfp drop

10k numeric drop was done by OpenStamp (Chinese firm). We weren’t behind it nor was it “malicious”. Stamps is a big ecosystem

That's would be 26k +

Need a hug kek

its unconscionable to declare a fork date and move it up because people used the product in its current functionality

Pifu collection. Also Openstamp

You just going to keep doing these until one fits the narrative? Lmfao

The first one was done In Dev chat, in favour of fees, from current maintainers etc, but you can forget that one if you like

There are like 3 concurrent polls now with no information as to how they are weighted. I’m sure you could massage any result you want out of the data

FAFO

If numerics are not slowed despite paying a fee I think the idea is xcp would become more valuable and liquid..as it would become needed for the primary activity happening on it cp as of late(stamps/numerics).This would attract more dev, exchanges relisting etc at a min, lots of good things. I think such a thing would help the whole cp eco grow alot. This is why I voted yes

Very logical conclusion

So not an anti-spam mechanism. Got it

It wasn’t an elegant way of doing things, but Jdog proved a point that has spurred the most development talk I’ve ever seen in CP.

It’s an anti shitcoiner actually

why would devs come with a higher xcp price?

they dont already hold it

its like buying the top

What if I vote then move the xcp to another address? Can I vote again?

Trolls never change

10 years top 😁 (I know I know is far from the top)

probly same firm minting BTNS

I’m not referring to voting

I wouldn’t put it past Choyna

I won't disagree with the result, but unplugging the servers would have done the same thing and not caused trust issues for counterparty.

If you can get the same result two ways, would you take the more or less destructive path?

I guess just be glad they didn’t burn btc fir it. lol

I think numerics should be split to its own directory in freewallet or something similar, I don't like all assets with a random string being the first thing I see, A838438494948 is useless information and takes away priority of my other assets.

XCP fee is a red herring, we already know that its activity that brough xchain down

BTNS minting did the same thing

why did devs come with stamps? financial incentive

Ya they are like junk mail in my mailbox

so jdog just wants less activity it seems

I don't know if they will slow or not personally...If they do slow, we know that cp and the current 1-3 devs can handle the load without any issue before stamps...so we would be back to things working smoothly as before i would assume. Either way brings stability I think

stamps are counterparty

yes

only src20 isnt

so saying stamps is a separate thing is part of the problem, they are A assets

just like Freeport assets are

it is part of the protocol

it is not new

Fake and Ghey

Junk mail

they were around in counterparty before you were

Probably before I was born

op return was around in btc before counterparty

Chicken egg

Quite a few genesis works for people on counterparty live within a numerical

Joe has implemented filters in RPW. Maybe that’s a better approach than a giant list

It hurts provenance to remove them for the historical record of those creators

i created a clientside subasset system with numerics before subassets were part of the protocol

I had my own opreturn prefix once upon a time but then found Counterparty

Would be nice to have option in fw not to show junk mail

Kinda like anti spam filter 🤣

If you don’t wamt to see it burn it

That’s a good solution

Stamps should run their own relay for their stuff that connects to xchain

i feel like everyone is arguing different things

Support your own infrastructure

so centralise even more

like jdog says if you want it build it. lol

If u build it they will shit in the sink

those pesky Counterparty users using Counterparty

put saran wrap on the sink so they shit on themselves. kek

by this standard... NOTHING should ever change in counterparty...

Things are implemented even when there is some controversy and not 100% consensus has been reached... I was no in charge of CP maintance / code years ago.. I suggested SUBASSETS idea... lots of ppl liked the idea, but had all sorts of different ways to implement it.... NO ONE agreed on a solution that was perfect... in fact some ppl even rage-quit counterparty over it for a few years because of the implementaion..... and yet, SOMEHOW, without everyone agreeing 100%, code got changed, not by me, and added to the protocol......

So, at some point, community demand for a feature matters REGARDLESS of if we can agree on the specific implementation details.. that was even more complex than the "fee ON/OFF" issue we have now.

Now we have a case of community having a problem, no one listening until it is an EMERGENCY (causing loss of funds), downtime, panic... And instead of working to solve the problem in a way that I think is fair, by adding a fee on numerics, which has been in discussion for many months, and which a large (70%+) portion of the devs were for adding an XCP 9 months ago..... NOW I am the enemy, causing drama... and any TRUE conversation of how to stop spamming has stopped... WTF?

I may be wrong, I may be seeing things incorrectly all these years.... but, to take a hard stance and ignore abuse in the community, and defend it with a "that is not how consensus works" is BS IMO...

I have started a poll of the community via XCP, Devs/projects, and general community on how they feel on this topic... If I am wrong, so be it, but if I am right, and the core devs choose to continue to ignore taking immediate action on this issue... then at least I've done my part, and made it easy for ppl to vote in many ways, and put the ownership of this decision back on the core devs.

Again, I am glad your back focused on CP dev here... and support the updates I see you making on github 🙂

Thanks for the wallet fix!!!

Bring back Indiesquare

its the same exact voting code / mechanism used to elect XCP foundation years ago... scoreboard validates votes, makes sure address has XCP... try it... vote, move it elsewhere... see what happens... its blockchain, anyone can verify votes, etc.

yes.. indiesquare and takara FTW... I wanna drop some tokens in the ocean again 🙂

You are on signal

Takara was fun times

Also doge party

Stamps still aren’t showing in FreeWallet can you PLEASE just let us see them for 24 hours so we can send them out of FreeWallet safely? I don’t think it’s a big ask and would help heal some wounds with the Stamp community I think.

Use another wallet bro. There’s a bunch

Put your seed phrase in its pretty simple

We’ve been over this I don’t want to have to copy and paste my seed phrase into another wallet.

Then stop complaining

Got like a million dollars of assets in it.

i member making rares on indiesquare with my phone back in 2017 lol

You must acquire xcp to vote. So how would you determine it’s not just someone else buying xcp wanting to vote vs me selling it to myself?

Dude it’s a free country I’m allowed to ask the question

So u have no idea what you are doing? Go back to solana 🤣

rare pepe wallet supports stamps
(and while entering a seed phrase is scary RPW has been up and running for years)

U get 5 votes lol

risking the whole collection on importing a seed into an unverified wallet is retarded.

Dude just ignore me my messages aren’t aimed at you

I tried blocking you but you still show up like a bad smell

Just block me and my messages please

Leave the group

Thats the only way

not sure if that will work for you, i get the hesitation to enter a phrase in anywhere

RPW is the best option no doubt

U smell like soy & sulfur 🤣

I’m a 43 year old Dad, if you think I’m gonna be intimidated by a little internet troll like you you’re wrong

Not all numeric assets are Stamps. Historical numeric assets (which are not Stamps) should never be made invisible.

as I said on the call yesterday Pilot.... If the numeric community wants to make getting numerics back on xchain.io, they have a way now... INDEPENDENT of what the core devs do.... ppl said it was a good idea, and they would be supportive... I have kept my word from yesterday, as I said I would.... and once bounty is funded, I'll spend time putting numerics back on xchain fully, and if xchain lags cuz of spamming, i'll spend some time writing code to parse most shit fast, then double-back n parse all the spam txs later... TLDR, keep xchain up, synced, n supporting everything.... I want to make it clear tho... this is for adding back NUMERICS to xchain... not for adding back "stamps"... yes, when numerics appear, they will be visible, including stamps... but the green header is gone for now (never got any $$$ for it, and its a huge pain teo support right now cuz of how many assets there are)... I do plan to spend some time in the future working on a couple simple updates to xchain with how I manage projects and displaying what collections a token is in... TLDR... one bounty paid, numerics back, n shortly after (a few weeks) hopefully have time to retool xchain a lil to add green banner back to stamps.... in perfect world.

Will rpw. wtf show numerical assets?

Can you use CP API ? you can make txhex to sign in freewallet

Find your safe space and get your vaxx

More than fair

Donate

So I can 100% tell the Stamps community that if 1 BITCOIN is raised then they will be able to see their Stamps again on Xchain and Free Wallet? Kinda feels a bit like blackmail but hey is what it is 😅

cool... you could donate 1 BTC (<$50k) and make stamps reappear for EVERYONE...not saying you should... just saying... solving these problems is a few button clicks away.... if it REALLY matters to ppl

Ok Alex

Also please buy my nft

I think stamps should have their own section, split it from our other assets

If I wasn’t so pissed off with what’s transpired this week I probably would and some of the Stamps community don’t think we should be negotiating/funding this sort of vindictive behaviour.

But you’ve made your terms clear… fair enough it’s your software.

I got given stamps and its annoying A04884949499494 before my real assets

I can see how it could feel that way... it has felt like blackmail to me for many months, that I have to keep running everything myself, for stamps n community, or ruin my reputation by having it be attacked... I think we both have different viewpoints... the truth is prolly in there somewhere... but, I have done my best, spoke on why it is difficult to support from a tech level, and provided solutions... I am sorry you feel upset, I honestly am trying my best right now, which is all I can do sir

Troll

Reminder this guys has 1 stamp 🤣

And the rest are solana meth shitcoins

Fair shout

not sure about all but it shows stamps i believe, just like pepe.wtf

It’s actually 10 of the #11 stamp in that wallet Alex

Ima try it now

If you really have over 1m assets, your anger should be set aside and you realized you're spending 50k to save 1m, that's a no brainer for fixing the issue

Cope

Mine was up

Yo mang. treat him like a barking dawg. Just ignore it.

You’re hilarious.

And to make things better for all the people he cares so much for

we could probably raise this pretty quickly.
then would just need to agree on reqs that it supports and timeline, @jdogresorg

Stamps need to be split from my other assets, I got given a heap of stamps and it's annoying to see A84884849949484 numbers for the first page of my assets.. the numbers mean nothing to me

I want to see my assets as a priority

'democracy' is simply the wrong model for how blockchains operate. on the contrary, they're non-coercive; you run the version of the software you want, and to that extent they're autarkical. the goal of Nakomoto consensus however is for people to be economically incentivized to be cooperative, but that does presume certain things about network participants.

i'm sure we'll have tools that show all counterparty assets and some counterparty assets in the not too distant future, then you can use what you like

also, you can fund someone to make this

then vote yes

Why should people fund to fix something stamps created? Stamps should pay for it

This is a numeric asset A11136359864833872787. This is not a Stamp. It was created by Scrilla Ventura in March 2020. This is just an example. There are several valuable historical numeric assets in Counterparty. Why aren't they taken into account here?

@thepilot_x
Hey fam. There is a verified wallet to import seed to.
rarepepewallet .wtf is Joe loone obviously.
Safe, and I can see my stamps, rares, fakes, danks etc but none of the other stuff.
So you can use this to do yer thing.

lol, did you miss the entire arguement

stamps didnt break anything on counterparty

hang on i thought we were not allowed to,use free assets for mass market appeal

As far as I'm concerned ordinals and stamps have hurt bitcoin, we were better without them

All we are missing in here is Luke dash. lol

ok

The problem is one man’s spam is another man’s protocol user

nope... please take the time to actually read xchain.io sir... it has 3 voting mechanism... 3 ways for ppl to vote... says NOTHING about how to determine votes, or what % of what determines consensus.. not my job to do that... My job here now is to give ppl ways to vote and voice their opinion... and let the devs determine how to interpret that data..... If it is an overwelming YES everywhere, pretty tough to ignore.... SO far, over 1% of the XCP supply has voted, so XCP stakeholders are already speaking... also so are projects (XChain / FreeWallet).. and there is a poll here..... So Mike, I'm just collecting data from many sources, and allowing community and core devs to interpret how they want.... consensus is hard, data helps 🤷️️️️️️

I spent $15 to send $300 a week ago and the funds still haven't been received. That functionality is more important to me than stampsb

you could be in the wrong chat

the events of the last week highlight a point that @hodlencoinfield alluded to: there is 'voting' insofar as some nodes have more economic weight than others, and the version of the software they run *may*, in proportion to their economic weight, compel others to use the same version of the software.

I'm pointing out not everyone loves stamps

or olives

Understand. Have you CPFP through electrum. Super easy

Say that to exchanges or the majority of transactions

is this possible for txns initiatied via freewallet, for some reason i thought it wasnt

your thinking of rbf ser

absolutely ser

you are right

NGL I kind of feel like minting a named stamp

I'm working right now to benchmark and optimize counterparty-server so as to address any performance issues at the implementation level, since that'll be much less controversial. (I don't think anyone has ever accused me of shying away from controversy! 😂) I know xchain.io is closed source, but let's figure out how we can work together to make it much cheaper + easier for you to host it going forward, if you like

This would be very helpful 👍

Sorry you’re learning so late how Bitcoin works, btw stamps isn’t clogging the mempool that’s mostly brc20

He may be on the next rare pepe yacht party... he was last year in Miami, was a fucking trip to meet him, chat a bit over dinner, etc.... Ordinals had just come out, so he was more focused on that than the Stamps UTXO bloat threat at the time... tho his focus might be changing if we see a bunch of 10K PFP spamming of stamps.... might make his view on counterparty overall go back to "Abusive, prune it"....

we've (Bitcoin/Counterparty devs) lived in harmony (mutually assured destruction) for many years with OP_RETURN and responsible UTXO bloating, only when necessary.... that changed with stamps.

In addition to the stamps spamming numerics and causing problems for Counterparty infrastructure (my view).. they also are attacking bitcoin, spamming the UTXO set "permanently", all to get attention cuz its "unprunable"

Yet another separate fear I have.... Counterparty being lumped in with what I PERSONALLY consider REALLY abusive behavior..... Bloat the UTXO set all you want to store your data and bloat it n get attention... but keyburn goes too far... I get, you want permanent data storage, but on this, I will come down with Luke Dash Jr, that it is abusive.... and all that it REALLY will accomplish IMO is:

- Get all Counterparty community grouped together in one bag as "Bad behavior"

- Make it more difficult for people to run Bitcoin nodes on smaller/cheaper hardware

- Forces Bitcoin core devs to look into optimizations/updates (yay)

- When said UTXO optimizations roll out, most likely your "unprunable" and "in memory of every bitcoin node" argument goes away

At the end of the day, we all could have been focused on a few tweaks to counterparty, to allow it to REALLY be on par with ordinals, by adding taproot/p2wsh support... which will enable the stamping of files just as large as ordinals and much more interoperability, which is what I believe we should all be aiming for... Shannon Code and Emblem Vaults did a great job of demonstrating that there is a TON of value by bridging counterparty tokens to other chains, and I think we should continue doing so.

I wish we could have had responsible usage from stamps, of Bitcoin and Counterparty from the beginning... but we are where we are, and we can only look forward.

I think an XCP fee on numerics, at least treats these numeric assets like all other assets, with a small fee to add some anti-spam friction. Then at least stamps is using Counterparty in what I consider a fair way, and the Bitcoin core devs can figure out the UTXO Bloat problems and prove the "Unprunable" argument is a dumb one... wether your stored in UTXOs/memory or in data on the chain only.... your data will still ALWAYS be available to a full-archival Bitcoin node (which is damn near everyone).

People will ALWAYS want/need to verify the BTC blockchain (and most other chains with value/usage) for themselves, so the data written to the chain is safe FOREVER... arguing over how abusive to make it simply to get hype, proove you can, and for profit, is the wrong motivation IMO.

True Cypherpunks show they can burn things down when needed, but then go back to exercising restraint generally (CP Launched, OP_Wars, responsible usage == stalemate)

Stamps took it too far with keyburn, and it casts all counterparty usage as abusive, when many of us here, I believe, to be anarchists and cypherpunks n test the limits, but not at the cost of destruction of all we love...

TLDR, dont shit where you eat... and please dont shit in the sinks anymore

looks like we could get 2 new stamps in the next block

Xchain is his. Counterparty belongs to the commons.

Luke is another one who finds himself outside of the consensus and constantly getting NACKED by Core. I’m not afraid of Luke. His threats are as toothless as his mouth at this point.

Multisig dust was not being reclaimed, was no tooling available to do so, stamps want utxoset residence key burn doesnt change that. The majority would never pick up multisig dust even if they could as they want to be in utxoset before keyburn came around

Unpopular opinion, I still don't know anything about ordinals or stamps, just leave my counterparty assets in peace 😂

Keyburn will likely be obviated as were in discussion with multiple mining pools to mint below the dust limit. 1 sat/output makes it uneconomical to ever spend. No need for keyburn

A strong community needs loud extreme voices of opposition, to keep pressure on people to not be lazy, and always be working towards progress.... CP had it for a while... but it got lost somewhere... Now that I can take the core maintainer hat off, I intend to fill that role 🤷️️️️️️

Big price reduction too on big stamps ... Nice

if we can then get counterparty to then use all 3 keys & not just 2 that's even more savings

Yup 33% savings right there

Enjoy that hard earned vacation; you are a legend

you can't have utxoset fully in ram and run on small/cheap machines at the same time.. pick one or the other

my rpi does not have all the utxoset in ram

I want to send btc for free like in the olden days

We got some serious problems if the whole thing working comes down to “responsible usage”

only stamp on weekends bro

how do Numeric registration fees fix xchain? sorry if i missed that already but serious question

when will luke allow us as many op_returns as he awards himself each coin base?

The theory is that there will be less registrations and so xchain will be able handle it

but what about the 100k of them that just broke xchain?

that was btns

i mean the ones we’ve been minting for 9 years

0.1 or 0.25 XCP for future ones will fix xchain?

Even 10 xcp per stamp won't fix a database

which isn't even broke

btw.... what it takes for one bitcoin node to store all your stuff in RAM, not a big deal currently... what it takes for a CP node operator CURRENTLY to store each stamp?

- UTXO bloat on bitcoin
Not TOO bad

- UTXO Bloat on addrindexrs (gotta store balance for every address used to encode data)
Pretty Bad... haven't looked into EXACTLY how large addrindexrs has grown due Stamps UTXO bloating

- Bloat on Counterparty (gotta store all stamp data ~10K in multiple places)
- record in transactions table
- record in transaction_outputs table
- record in messages table
- record in issuances table
- record in assets table
- record in credits table
- record in debits table (fix 0 quantity records pls)
- record in balances table

IMO, CP / core devs should focus on database optimizations, indexes, and reducing the amount of times they store duplicate data in places in the database (which I can see they are, and I am glad)

also, focus on limiting the amount of data we can store in the database, and separating stored data from the token itself.. database will explode if taproot/p2wsh is enabled for larger transactions on counterparty before you deal with limiting what is stored in the database.

Sorry to speak out on stamps negatively... It started cool, and definitely has driven some neat innovations through its small filesize limitaitons... but the impact of stamps and being abusive to not just numerics, but all aspects of its underlying tech (Bitcoin, Counterparty, XChain, FreeWallet), while it definitely gets attention.... as I said, yesterday, it is abusive, it has a cost, and someone has to bear that cost... shared burden only works if it is TRULY shared.

</end rambling thoughts... for now>

ah, I'm going actually going to *increase* the amount of data counterparty stores in its (tiny) database... so that *working* with that data is much faster

write once, read many(TM)

I trust your judgement and the core devs going forward to choose what is best 👍️️️️️️

I was being responsible cleaning up my multisig utxos, who else was doing that let's have a show of hands please ?

I think we should really think hard about when we use words like abusive

or let's see your code that cleans up after you shit in the sink

So I can 100% tell the Stamps community that if 1 BITCOIN is raised then they will be able to see their Stamps again on Xchain and Free Wallet? Kinda feels a bit like blackmail but hey is what it is 😅

cool... you could donate 1 BTC (<$50k) and make stamps reappear for EVERYONE...not saying you should... just saying... solving these problems is a few button clicks away.... if it REALLY matters to ppl

sorry trying to catch up stuff

so donation will fix xchain as well as adding XCP fee for numerics?

it's a win win

so had stamps projects been donating more all along this might have even avoided, cheap asses ;)

Place part of the fees in a software/hardware development and maintenance fund. Part of fees burned to support native token through deflation.

All my friends turned the FreeWallet fee off and now we can’t see our frog pixels

Why would the donation add a fee to numerics?

So let me get this right bitcoin was sent to a burn address bloating the utxo so that we don't have to bloat the utxo

Bitcoin is Permissionless: we’re just writing messages to OP_RETURN. Others are free to parse or ignore them altogether.

i am sure someone beat you to the TM, and that you'll be hearing from their lawyer soon

They could have done named stamps and paid the fee.

i was saying the donation part in jest. will BTNS have the same impact on XChain or be a different explorer? will it use numerics?

We need to accept people are free to use a permissionless system as they wish to.  Throwing words like Spam Abuse Sinkshit about is just pure noise

Or how about, it’s our project and we don’t answer to you?

No fees on broadcast and no desire to add them pre-emptively. 🤷‍♂️

@mikeinspace even though I think there is no deep significance to it it's true that in its conception the fee for issuances was anti-squat not anti-spam. don't think it matters too much but saw you asked.

You keep flip flopping back and forth with whats right.

Thank you for confirming this. It makes a lot more sense and is actually quite relevant as we’ve been told “we’re using it wrong”

How do you like them apples?

meh, yeah i mean basically as i've said before 'name squatting' is a real thing; 'number squatting' is not

doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't change but there you go.

Can we stop taxing ourselves for dividends and Sweeps? or is antispam a legit use case ? if so when unlimited dispensers?

lol I'm not in charge of anything

I agree. But the arguments used have been disingenuous that’s all I’m saying

You already dont like named stamps and said that you dont want it in your green banner collection. The community can stamp named assets and pay a fee is they wish. Permission less like you say, right?

New open protocol not owned by Mike. Named stamps. Dyor.

It always only ever made sense in that context so glad to see that confirmed

The XCP fee is in place for named assets because they are finite, it is anti-squat not anti-spam. It doesn't make any sense to transfer this to numericals.

Go for it! Permissionless. I can’t stop you.

Jdog didn’t either

Because they dont rely on xchain at all

A little context

Adding fee to numerics is irrelivant when asking would that fix xchain.

There are different reasons people will hold for wanting/not wanting a fee on numerics

Example, in the last 9 months the amount of numerics is the same as all the 10 years or so assets made on CP.

With 10k pfp numerics dropping, the new hip, is that beneficial or not to the long standing community.

Etc etc.

If like when already the vote was in favour of fees, happens again through these votes, and action is/is not taken (fee added or not based of results of vote) that changes nothing as I read it, as to if xchain will support numerics.

The only way, as I read it, to have support for numerics on xchain now, is to help burden the cost as way of donation.

Regardless what happens regarding fee on numerics, fee added or not, xchain will support if the donation bar is full.

could I tho? would be seen as me, big bad j-dog, trying to "take over" a tiny stamps project... which his why I tried to define STAMP as something different, defined CIP26 as a way to "stamp" things, and started writing tokenstamps.io... to support everything that COULD be stampped, and not just what you guys in Bitcoin Stamps say is a "Stamp"....

this is why it is best to leave things open when you define a spec... may be profitable to make it complicated (mint service required)... but, if left open n didn't have a narrow view of "free" numerics only, like I encourage @mikeinspace from the beginning, most of this drama would not have played out this way.

Another case where I tried to help and guide and support... Glad Bitcoin Stamps is finally going towards a more "open" view of what is stamp instead of "Just our ideas, stamps on numerics, src-20, etc"... just too bad, things could have been much farther along with cooperation... but that requires stopping coding and engaging... which I understand, can be tough at times, but IMO is necessaary.

https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/cips/blob/master/cip-0026.md

Mint service has never been required. The protocol is open. That doesn’t mean we have to offer free tooling though. Indelible trade independently built his own minting service.

Amazing how that works. No wonder they don’t like open source

I have never used a mint server ser

It’s all open source

no one reads github @mikeinspace

People don’t know what open source means. There are now 5 or 6 services and yes individuals can do it on their own

I don’t even think it’s possible to deploy a blockchain protocol that isn’t open. How would that work?

Ripple

blockchain not database

“Could have avoided all this drama” yeah and could have avoided creating a successful project. The opinionated decisions are why the project has had success.

ORDINALXCP

Bro all of you just chill

Eat and chill

Have a great few days away and enjoy Vegas! Wish I could be there too.

Is the site and FreeWallet down again or just me

just you

XCP is worth $4 in entertainment value alone.

What an insane week. Founder of XCP working on DB, forks, new core dev team, shutdowns, fee arguments, wtf is going on around here.

https://t.me/bullionbitcoinbs/34295

The fight for the foundation of tokenization is habbening